00:00:00:02 - 00:00:16:23
Itamar Marani
Few things can get in the way of your business success more than a divorce, going through depression or getting so burnt out that you don't want to play this game anymore, call it quits. For three years I was the billionaire's head of security. I got to travel all across the world on his private jet, the helicopters, the mega-yacht, all the mansions.

00:00:17:00 - 00:00:35:07
Itamar Marani
And I got to see the good, the bad and everything in between. Today, what we're gonna share in the episode is something a bit counterintuitive. I'm going to show you the three worst money mindset lessons that if you can avoid what I learned from that, if you can avoid, you would give yourself a much better chance to stay in the game, keep winning and see a lot more financial success.

00:00:35:09 - 00:00:59:14
Itamar Marani
In this podcast, we're not going to be talking about why you should be content with how to make sure that you avoid the pitfalls so that you can actually achieve more. Keep playing this game and succeed. Enjoy today's episode. In 2016, I was a billionaire's head of security for almost three years and part of my role was managing all his villas and all the security teams across the world and also being the head of security and a half billion dollar mega.

00:00:59:16 - 00:01:20:00
Itamar Marani
It was a pretty wild experience flying in private jets, flying from the helicopter on the mega yacht to the private jet to the island, whatever it was, and there were a lot of valuable lessons there, but there were also a lot of valuable lessons about what not to do, that I got to interact with these incredibly wealthy people and I got to learn the worst things that they do.

00:01:20:03 - 00:01:34:16
Itamar Marani
And why? Because they actually live a very poor life, even though they were extremely wealthy. So what I want to do today, I want to break down the three worst money mindset lessons I learned from being around him and his other billionaire friends. So there's going to be a bit of a different podcast, but I think there's a lot of gold here.

00:01:34:16 - 00:01:37:06
Itamar Marani
So Alex, welcome and thanks for joining us.

00:01:37:06 - 00:01:45:18
Alex De Fina
Matt Thanks for having me. That way to get into this topic and learn about what the worst sort of money mindset habits were from a billionaire rather than the best.

00:01:45:20 - 00:01:49:15
Itamar Marani
Cool. So any initial thoughts before we kick off?

00:01:49:17 - 00:01:53:16
Alex De Fina
No thoughts, bunch of assumptions. But yeah, you just get to it.

00:01:53:18 - 00:02:23:20
Itamar Marani
Cool. All right. So the first lesson was that money can get you control and perhaps respect, but not love and affection. So this is something that I would see so prevalent in all these really wealthy areas. And St Barts in Monaco that people's kids didn't love them. It's like the kids had to obey them because they wanted to keep the cash flow because the parents would provide for them the car, the little apartment in Monaco, whatever it may be.

00:02:23:22 - 00:02:47:05
Itamar Marani
And they knew they had to obey them. And they respected that like they've accomplished a lot, but they didn't like them and they definitely didn't love them. And it was really weird because you could see that the the parent billionaires, let's call them, were really frustrated. They were like, I am providing you everything. Why am I not getting what I can't explain that I want?

00:02:47:07 - 00:03:06:13
Itamar Marani
They would obviously want people to love them, to be affectionate towards them, and not just respect them like their own blood, their kids. But they didn't receive that. And I think a lot of them weren't aware that's exactly what they wanted, but they weren't getting it. But you could tell there was this kind of like agitation and frustration and that was the first thing.

00:03:06:13 - 00:03:32:09
Itamar Marani
And I remember hearing this and also like a talk that somebody said to a bunch of Harvard grads, You have to be very careful if you keep focusing on your work, because otherwise someone else will raise your kids in ten years. And that was the thing that I really learned about having an extreme amount of money that will absolutely buy you respect and it will get you a lot of control from people that work for you or even your family members, which what happened there.

00:03:32:14 - 00:03:46:21
Itamar Marani
You can control the situation, but what you really probably want that you're not aware of that love and affection, it doesn't get that. So lesson number one, any thoughts about that? Thoughts, questions.

00:03:46:23 - 00:04:09:01
Alex De Fina
Question From your perspective, was the billionaire in question aware that they were buying sort of proximity or buying sort of transactional relationships through influence of their money and not love like you think they had a controlling desire? Or was it.

00:04:09:03 - 00:04:31:04
Itamar Marani
Right? Absolutely. All the ones, all the billionaires, again, also want to say this for context. I interact a lot with the billionaires. It's called from the Eastern Bloc, the Soviet bloc of oligarchs, not a lot of the time, the more enlightened billionaires from Silicon Valley that had built something that was really useful to the rest of the world and society and because it was so useful, they happened to become billionaires.

00:04:31:09 - 00:04:48:20
Itamar Marani
That was a byproduct of it. I interacted with. A lot of people like to be very truthful that they were on the gray area of kind of being mobsters in the past because when the Soviet Union fell apart, it was over who had more kind of power, financial, whatever, and we could see certain assets. So it was a lot about control.

00:04:48:22 - 00:04:56:04
Itamar Marani
And they absolutely really, really wanted control first and foremost. That was like their highest priority.

00:04:56:06 - 00:05:07:17
Alex De Fina
So what made them successful was controlling people sort of manipulation, power and influence and data that was then transferred into the family life.

00:05:07:19 - 00:05:17:01
Itamar Marani
Yeah, they tried to run it. They tried to use the same skill set that made them successful in business to have a successful family. And I think that's where there was a falling out.

00:05:17:03 - 00:05:39:23
Alex De Fina
Today appear emotionally affected negatively by the lack of love. Yes, absolutely. As I said, they were unaware of the fact that this sort of need to control was also robbing them of what they actually wanted, which was true love and affection.

00:05:40:01 - 00:05:59:14
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And it could also have been beyond that. It's not just the need to control, but the recognition that the things they did to get them control and respect wouldn't also like. They have to do something else to get love and affection. The whole thing like, yes, you can fly your kid out on the private jet and force them to come and see you when you're in the Caribbean or whatever it may be like.

00:05:59:16 - 00:06:24:07
Itamar Marani
That might not make up for the time that you were not available to them when they were younger and they just wanted to father is wanted someone see their soccer game or whatever. And it's just like, what got you? This is not necessarily what's going to get you that, I think. Yes. Money like accumulating amassed massive, massive amounts of it will get you control over people, whether it's in your business and a lot of times in their family and perhaps respect as well.

00:06:24:07 - 00:06:41:01
Itamar Marani
People did risk taking. They didn't like him a lot of times. A lot of the employees didn't like them, but they respect they couldn't not respect what they accomplished. And same thing with the kids. And I know like they couldn't help but respect like what they accomplished. Self-made billionaire, so to speak, came from poor family, made all these, like billions of dollars, respect what he's accomplished.

00:06:41:03 - 00:06:47:17
Itamar Marani
That's not the same as love and affection. Obedience is not love and affection.

00:06:47:19 - 00:07:27:05
Alex De Fina
What what can we learn as entrepreneurs who aren't doing as yet whether or not that's the North Star interrupted interpersonal relationships. Do you see clients of yours who maybe it's a there's a exoduses of part of the team and they've confused a transactional relationship. I pay these people salary or whatever to loyalty and that they what they really wanted was loyalty and just kind of recognizing that transactional relationships don't equal love, loyalty, and any of these.

00:07:27:07 - 00:07:57:12
Itamar Marani
Things is that transactional relationships are transactional relationships, mostly just having to think there's something else. And also don't don't bring the mindset that you have in transactional, that there are some transactional business relationships. Don't bring that mindset that's effective in that context of transactional business relationships into one where you want to have affection, a love that requires a different approach, a different mindset and different kind of investments to time, whatever it may be.

00:07:57:14 - 00:08:08:17
Itamar Marani
The thing is recognizing that the approach that you use to get you a lot of control and a respect might not work out as an effective approach to get you love and affection.

00:08:08:19 - 00:08:36:02
Alex De Fina
I've learned this lesson in business and a few times where I have felt emotionally hurt by one of my subordinates decisions or actions, and I thought they were more loyal, we had a better relationship, etc. But what I've done is I've transferred my emotional needs onto that dynamic and not not see it for what it what it was, which was purely transactional.

00:08:36:04 - 00:08:57:15
Alex De Fina
I enjoy the paycheck. I enjoy, you know, whatever I need them to fulfill a certain role. But everything else was my transference of my emotional needs onto them. And therefore the pain that I felt post the event was a reflection of what I wanted or needed, not necessarily something sinister that I did.

00:08:57:17 - 00:09:13:23
Itamar Marani
Yeah. Do you think there was something that you could have done differently there to to evolve into something that's beyond a transactional relationship or whether it's just something to accept that in that situation? I just need to recognize that this is a place where it's not going to be a transactional relationship.

00:09:14:01 - 00:09:53:06
Alex De Fina
Both in that I think that sometimes as founders, employers, we're aware of a lot more complexity than, you know, front line team those might be. And so there's often battles going on that they're not aware of them where you might be displaying loyalty to certain people in a in a battle that they never knew existed. And so in your mind, you know, you're kind of this is sort of tit for tat equation of loss and yeah, so did they ignorance of that perception on the view and also I think that it is very common to to bring complexity to transactional relationships because we all want our team to succeed.

00:09:53:06 - 00:10:12:16
Alex De Fina
We all have a metaphorical vision for the future. We're ten years from now, we're sitting, you know, clinking gold chalices and drinking to our shared success and talking about, you know, the battles that we've had. But that might not be their story, that what be their vision. And they're simply looking at it as a paycheck for now until they can find their next move.

00:10:12:18 - 00:10:21:16
Alex De Fina
And so I think that we often bring we often bring our emotional needs into out into our relationships. And we often pay the price for it. Yeah.

00:10:21:18 - 00:10:42:05
Itamar Marani
I'll give an inverse example. So with me, I have a young son and when he was one, I provided a lot for it. I provided literally like the housing for him. I provided my wife to receive take a one year maternity leave right off financially. I mean, so that she can take care of him and really be present with him.

00:10:42:06 - 00:11:05:13
Itamar Marani
And that's how we looked at it as a team. And I felt like I was doing I was making so much effort to create this kind of environment for him to thrive in and a young toddler, adolescent stage, whatever it is. But when I would come home from the office, I wouldn't get affection from the one what I thought I got a positive take for what I felt like I deserved because I provide some in my wife, which is like in her rhythm.

00:11:05:13 - 00:11:23:01
Itamar Marani
She was like, That's just the reality of it. She doesn't understand what you provide. He just understands that you're not present with him because you're focused at work and you got to recognize that if you don't give him that level of prioritization in the way that he wants it, you're not going to get well you out of that relationship with love and affection for.

00:11:23:03 - 00:11:38:00
Itamar Marani
And when she kind of woke me up to that, things really changed. Like now, whenever I enter the house, he just wants to give me a hug and it's awesome. But that wouldn't have happened if I would have still felt like I'm just going to do things my way and I hope this result happens and I want this.

00:11:38:00 - 00:11:42:13
Itamar Marani
You know what I mean? I have to understand that's a deal.

00:11:42:15 - 00:12:11:19
Alex De Fina
Do you think that's what may have been happening with the billionaire, even though from your perspective, he was someone who does enjoy the control and manipulation of people, maybe he was living a life that wasn't fully satisfied with an emotional level. He was he was playing certain influence games that were taking some kind of an emotional toll on him and and in his mind, he thought the reciprocity was, you know, I'm engaging in business activities.

00:12:11:21 - 00:12:21:03
Alex De Fina
I now have a lot of zeros in the bank account. I'm making your life, my children life easier, better, etc.. Therefore, you should love me. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:12:21:05 - 00:12:46:10
Itamar Marani
Absolutely. The way I wanted to summarize this lesson, lesson number one is money doesn't buy a lot of liberty control by power and by respect. It does not buy you love and affection. And I've seen that. And the most extreme example people have billions and billions of dollars, even at that extreme example where you can provide for them private jets, you can provide for them the most expensive apartments in London or Monaco or whatever it may be, Money will not buy you love.

00:12:46:12 - 00:12:48:00
Itamar Marani
That's lesson number one.

00:12:48:02 - 00:12:49:06
Alex De Fina
Really important.

00:12:49:08 - 00:13:13:18
Itamar Marani
Yeah. Cool. Come on. Money mindset. Lesson number two is don't overextend yourself financially like this can happen. It's just a ratio. Whether you're just you're just making barely making ends meet. You're a billionaire. Whatever it may be. I joined, I got recruited, I got headhunted to join. This billionaire becomes head of security because he had just bought a half billion dollar mega-yacht He had basically retired.

00:13:13:21 - 00:13:30:16
Itamar Marani
He said, okay, I want to do retirement world for three years around the world. I want to see all these awesome places. So I'm going to buy this have been our Mega-Yacht It was one of the ten biggest private mega yachts on the planet at the time. He had a pool, two helipads, two gyms, and inside of it also there's like four boats.

00:13:30:18 - 00:13:47:22
Itamar Marani
There's like it was had a spa, like a plunge pool, asanas, all like anything you could imagine. It was wild. Just there were 80 people just working there at all times and outside, including the crew that he actually had, because a lot of people are on vacation. It's like in total, I think it employed 110 people there, 80 people there at all time.

00:13:48:00 - 00:14:08:12
Itamar Marani
The cost of operating that I think were over like 30 or $50 million a year, depending how how much you go places. It's a wild thing. Now, what was wild is that I travel with him around the world, not just on the yacht, but also two other villas. Whenever we would go on the yacht, there was his like brand new shiny toy.

00:14:08:13 - 00:14:28:18
Itamar Marani
He would be the most stressed out because I think from what I understood, I never looked at his financials, never understood it. But what I was told by the close people around him was that it was a bit of an overextension. He tried to play in like one club, like there's also clubs of like billionaire levels. He try to play in a club that was a bit above his billionaire league.

00:14:28:20 - 00:14:49:10
Itamar Marani
And instead of this yacht being supposed to be this, like, amazing thing where he travel the world, no stress, just fun, just seeing these beautiful sunsets. It actually stressed him out because he realized that it was really eating away at what he was trying to do. And his friends were telling me, you need to relax and enjoy this.

00:14:49:12 - 00:15:03:13
Itamar Marani
But instead he kept saying, I need to protect this. This is my asset. So no, no, no. They would tell them like that. Whereas if you look at it as your asset, it's going to drive you nuts. This is a terrible asset like buying a giant Mega-Yacht is not a smart financial investment as an asset. It's a terrible one.

00:15:03:13 - 00:15:15:22
Itamar Marani
It's a fun thing. But he wasn't able to do that because you overstretched himself. So first off, any thoughts about that?

00:15:16:00 - 00:15:27:06
Alex De Fina
Yeah, I think this is incredibly common at all stages of entrepreneurism. It could be financing the car that you can't really afford or buying a half billion dollar mega yacht. I think it's very, very common.

00:15:27:08 - 00:15:53:01
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And I think I would see this the most when we would come the same bar St Barts is this island in the Caribbean where all the billionaires come to play and play. I mean, a big part of itself who's got a bigger you know, you have a $200 billion, $200 billion million 300 to 500. Oh, I have two 600 million lost and I have a couple support ships next.

00:15:53:03 - 00:16:17:13
Itamar Marani
And it was a game that he couldn't win. And what was interesting is that he was actually kind of happy on the yacht when we were in places where he was the biggest fish. But as soon as there was comparison and he wasn't, it felt different. I think a big part of why he wanted to buy that giant yacht was to tell himself a story.

00:16:17:15 - 00:16:39:05
Itamar Marani
And his story was, This proves that I am successful beyond any reasonable doubt that I've reached the upper limit, so to speak. However, when there was a higher upper limit because of a bigger yacht, that insecurity still played. So they still had that insecurity on top of it. Yeah, the frustration of I've spent so much money that's a bit above my head.

00:16:39:05 - 00:17:04:21
Itamar Marani
Perhaps. And like you said, I think it's super common. People buy the house, they don't need the car, they don't need whatever it may be. They think that'll solve their insecurity, make them feel good about themselves. But it actually does the opposite. It adds so much more stress to their life. I think they're going to get rid of it in security, but it just doesn't actually solve the insecurity and it adds a lot of stress.

00:17:04:23 - 00:17:32:00
Alex De Fina
That's absolutely my experience. I think that brothers buying the AP watch, I make an example of someone going in and buying a Lamborghini. I think every Lamborghini dealership should have like a side room. And so when someone comes in and says, you know, how much is this car? And the salesperson could say, Yeah, it's $4 million, but for only $10,000, you can walk into this room with a bunch of successful people, a bunch of beautiful women, and they all clap and say, Wow, you're the man.

00:17:32:04 - 00:17:56:21
Alex De Fina
You are the man. Why would I want that? But it's part of what you're buying the car for is really what someone buys the Lamborghini for the mega yacht for is is the you know acknowledgment from LP. So really it's it's a it's a it's a desire to needs or want. It's insecurity that we're trying to plug the hallways but there can only be one.

00:17:56:21 - 00:18:08:02
Alex De Fina
KING Right. And so trying to to have the biggest and best is call it the greyhound chase the rabbit. The more you go after it, the more exhausted and probably lack you feel.

00:18:08:04 - 00:18:29:23
Itamar Marani
Yeah. There's the thing about it is do you ever heard it because you bought the Lamborghini example? Have you ever heard about the man of the car analogy? No. So when let's say you see a Lamborghini drive by your industry, what happens instinctually to most people, they think to themselves, Wow, I would look really cool in that Lamborghini.

00:18:30:05 - 00:18:45:04
Itamar Marani
I'd be so cool if I have that. Very, very few people think, Wow, I bet the guy inside the Lamborghini is really cool. So the thing that that person was trying to achieve by having that ambiguity, they don't actually achieve it. And it's so.

00:18:45:04 - 00:18:45:23
Alex De Fina
True.

00:18:46:01 - 00:19:03:06
Itamar Marani
When I remember the the yacht was parked in Miami next to the Heat where the he played Americanairlines Arena, I think it was called back in the day. And so a lot of people walk by it and look at never and I stood by a lot of times I'd be outside the yard hanging out, whatever it may be.

00:19:03:07 - 00:19:27:11
Itamar Marani
And I never once heard somebody say, Wow, I bet the person inside of it is such an amazing person. What people would always say back, that wouldn't be cool to own this. They never thought about that person and kind of get back to the point, though. My kind of like it's one sentence take away from all that was that you'll never outspend your own security because like you said, there might be a bigger fish because you are.

00:19:27:12 - 00:19:42:04
Itamar Marani
Can I give you the kind of feedback, the applause, the celebration that you want, whatever it may be, but to recognizing you can't plug in to security with finance, that doesn't work. I hadn't seen know people that have ultimate finance to the call.

00:19:42:06 - 00:19:48:22
Alex De Fina
Agreed. And so the only way to plug it in security is to plug in security like something else. But it's not going to come through money.

00:19:49:00 - 00:19:50:02
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

00:19:50:04 - 00:19:54:16
Alex De Fina
Yeah. Cool. That's helpful.

00:19:54:18 - 00:20:24:00
Itamar Marani
Lesson number three. So, well, I talk about there's that island called St Barts, which is where all the billionaires it's a tiny little island. And next to it about don't a ten minute flight on a little propeller plane thingy is a much bigger outfit called Saint Martin. Say Martin also houses a big international airport. Now, middle upper class people from Europe fly to Saint Martin for vacation.

00:20:24:02 - 00:20:38:19
Itamar Marani
What happened was that I finished one of my shifts. The way we would work is I would work a month on and then I would get a month of paid leave with a flight anywhere I wanted in the world. So I had somebody else who was with my similar background from the Israeli agency that would kind of swap me out, and that's how we would work.

00:20:38:21 - 00:21:06:01
Itamar Marani
So I was in St Barts and I need to catch a plane to say Martine's. I got an actual proper international flight from the big airport to go back home. Now, when I was waiting in the airport in St Barts, it was really interesting because everybody there was dressed in, you know, their all white capri linen, which is the thing that everybody whereas there, you know, all the women with all their Julio, their diamonds, the guys with all their watches and they're just waiting for their flights.

00:21:06:03 - 00:21:25:03
Itamar Marani
Some of them were flying private, some of them were flying, whatever. And when I got on my commercial flight, it was a little propeller jet and I landed in Saint Martin. It was blinding all of a sudden how happy people when I was in St Barts, I didn't notice that everybody was kind of stuck in there, like phones or whatever it may be.

00:21:25:05 - 00:21:46:20
Itamar Marani
And they all looked great. But they didn't. It didn't look. They would felt great. And when I got to see Martin, it was just blindingly obvious the contrast. Everyone there was so appreciative of the vacation. They just had the time that they had, the fact that they able just go to this beautiful island in the Caribbean and it was it was such a wild thing to see.

00:21:46:22 - 00:22:13:13
Itamar Marani
And it taught me a lesson about that kind of reality that you need to be careful what you optimize for if you're optimizing just around making money and you're saying to yourself the story that you tell yourself is that stress, paranoia and aggression are really, really good traits to develop, really effective traits to develop to. After my solo around making more money, it's really hard to turn off your traits.

00:22:13:13 - 00:22:32:03
Itamar Marani
So you've developed what happened with my boss that I noticed he thought that he would get to 60. You retire magically, turn it off. All of a sudden you become this blissful person who can just enjoy, get a foot massage while he's sitting in the back of the yacht overlooking the ocean, whatever. But it wouldn't last. He would try to be in a good mood.

00:22:32:07 - 00:22:55:23
Itamar Marani
Something would always trigger to always walk around with a scout. And I think it's really important to understand what traits are you training yourself for. So that was lesson number three to be very conscious what your optimizing your behaviors are, and that's of sex. You can't turn it off, not on a macro level where after 60 years you ultimately change.

00:22:56:01 - 00:23:07:20
Itamar Marani
And also it's hard to do that on a micro level to say, oh, from 9 to 5, I'll this be this, and then in five I'll be this. Any thoughts around that?

00:23:07:22 - 00:23:19:19
Alex De Fina
I can I can share personal experience that I really relate to what you just said of certain traits that might have been helpful in the climb on necessarily most advantageous much on top of the best. And I.

00:23:19:19 - 00:23:20:14
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

00:23:20:16 - 00:23:44:18
Alex De Fina
My most successful seasons in business as well has been there was a chip on my shoulder it's me against the world and I've had to work very hard on doing that because any time I'm on the cusp of launching, investing, putting on something else, it's like there's this part of my brain lights up and says, okay, you know, I could hear the war drums start to sort of pound.

00:23:44:18 - 00:24:08:21
Alex De Fina
It's like, like I need to turn back into that person again. But also recognizing that person could be financially successful, that burnt out, unhealthy, you know, lonely, miserable, etc.. So I have to I have to be very, very careful about how I approach things. So it's it's become almost hardwired that, you know, significant business growth equals 1 to 1 approach.

00:24:08:23 - 00:24:15:02
Alex De Fina
So being being aware of what I'm optimizing for is, has been an ongoing journey for me.

00:24:15:04 - 00:24:36:23
Itamar Marani
Yeah. Hearing you say that it's taken me deeper inside understanding of this, I think a big part of is contextualized. So there's this called good offensive traits and good defensive traits If you're trying to play offense. So financially you should be really aggressive investor when you're actually supposed to be in a defensive state of mind, you're going to get a bad result with him.

00:24:37:01 - 00:24:58:03
Itamar Marani
He wasn't aware that this were the traits that he was developing all around everywhere in life, and Russian paranoia and stress. He didn't say to himself, you know what, in the context just of business, when I'm working with these kind of deals, these kind of people, whatever it may be, these are useful. Then when I'm at home, I need to develop these kind of traits he didn't think about.

00:24:58:03 - 00:25:30:02
Itamar Marani
I need to show up as a different individual with different traits in different environments. He was, This is who I am and it's going to be that way all the way around. So that's all he developed. It could very well have been that if you would have said to himself in a very intentional level, very conscious level, that 9 to 5, I'm going to be paranoid, stressed, aggressive, whatever it may be, but five to nighttime, whatever it may be, afternoon time, when I'm home, I'm going to be more caring, let to be more effective, I'm going to be more present.

00:25:30:02 - 00:25:47:02
Itamar Marani
I'm going to be a bit more silly with my kids when they're young, whatever it may be. That would have been also a skill set they would develop how to be that kind of person. And that also would have gone back to rule number one where you recognize of of aggression, stress and paranoia is not probably going to get him love from young children.

00:25:47:04 - 00:25:52:19
Itamar Marani
That's not the kind of person they're going to gravitate.

00:25:52:21 - 00:26:12:18
Alex De Fina
I think just think of some of the examples where the achievement of the thing has often not given the person what they believe they're going to get. Yeah, professional bodybuilders would be an example of that. So anyone who started off, they thought, you know, I'm skinny and weak and one day I can be this kind of Herculean sort of giant.

00:26:12:20 - 00:26:39:05
Alex De Fina
And should they do whatever is required to get to that point in time, Often those people of the most body conscious, you know, lacking in confidence. So unless you're aware of your emotional kinks, it's unlikely it's going to be resolved. Simply by adding money is more likely is going to be inflated or compounded.

00:26:39:07 - 00:27:20:23
Itamar Marani
Yeah, I would look at it a bit differently just from my perspective observing. I think it's and it's interesting to say this, but he was someone who had a really, really, really high skill set in making money. He overindex on that skill set. You didn't over completely index only on that skill set. It was very under index and the skill sets that traits that he would want to be able to have a really rich life elsewhere and that's why I say altogether why I think he actually had a very poor life despite being incredibly financially well, because he had that one place where he was very fancy, wealthy, but everywhere else he was very deficient

00:27:21:03 - 00:27:39:00
Itamar Marani
in his skill set as he never thought to develop. I know you guys sometimes laugh. The fact that I only where I have the same like five polos that I wear, same brand, same color and everything, but what it does that puts me in the frame of work. This is how we behave in this function. I'm at work whenever you see me out.

00:27:39:00 - 00:28:04:07
Itamar Marani
When I'm not, I wear something different. This is not me at work. I think being conscious, recognizing what skills, what traits am I trying to adopt, trying to like, behave, trying to whatever it may be in this, in the specific context, being aware, there's different contexts. Oh, that's really crucial. He didn't do that. He thought he would just for 60 years paranoia, stress, aggression, and then all of a sudden he'd switch.

00:28:04:09 - 00:28:22:02
Itamar Marani
So he got to 60 and he had this tremendous skill deficiency in being able to enjoy life, being able to be more present with the family, kids, whatever it may be. And he got so frustrated about it. But of course, it makes sense that he compared himself like, I'm really, really good at making money. I'm terrible at this.

00:28:22:04 - 00:28:38:22
Itamar Marani
So beyond the fact that it was terrible, it's also frustrating. It's all these terrible of the reality. He was starting from zero because he never paid any attention. So I think it's really important to sound like, what traits are you trying to train yourself for? And are those the only ones that you have? Do you see a broader perspective.

00:28:39:00 - 00:28:57:13
Alex De Fina
Of imagining a may father that just focused on striking and the first time someone goes to wrestle them, they're like, Oh shit, you know, I have no skills here. It's like, Have you trained these skills? Like, never. It's like, okay, how often do we do that in in our own lives where we're optimizing for business acumen and that's all we care about.

00:28:57:15 - 00:29:04:20
Alex De Fina
And then we're wondering why our friendships are starting to develop some, some problems or, you know, romantic relationships.

00:29:04:22 - 00:29:29:10
Itamar Marani
And I think it's a challenging thing because the reason I think everybody gets attracted to that because it's so much more tangible, seeing numbers go up in a bank account is very tangible, whether you call it a dopamine loop or just a feeling of success, whatever it may be, it's very tangible. Say, Oh, I did this. I got success with relationships, with love, with affection, with these things that are so much less tangible.

00:29:29:12 - 00:29:49:21
Itamar Marani
So it's harder for ourselves to tell it. It's harder to tell ourselves we've succeeded. We've done a good job and we want to tell ourselves that. So we get attracted to a place where we can do that. This financial problem with that is that, like these billionaires that I met, you can become really successful at playing a game that you didn't really actually want to play.

00:29:49:23 - 00:30:12:23
Itamar Marani
Played a very narrow game, like you said. I think that's why despite these people having tremendous, tremendous financial wealth, they had a very poor life, a lot of it. They're very miserable people that I would never want to be in their shoes. And this wasn't just something that I felt was something that most of the people that work in that industry say, you know, again, these were the people that only indexed.

00:30:12:23 - 00:30:37:19
Itamar Marani
And this I did not work with somebody who running a large company that they're super proud of. That's a net positive for the world. It's doing amazing things and is in charge of like, you know, big things with their community and with their family. That's not that. These are people that are only index on this and just how can I make the most amount of capital because it only works unless there were poor everywhere else.

00:30:37:21 - 00:30:51:10
Alex De Fina
Is there a common trend that you've seen in high performers, say, financially, where they don't necessarily have to have those challenges, where they do optionality.

00:30:51:12 - 00:31:12:04
Itamar Marani
Intentionality, intentionality? Is this the one thing? Are they aware of what they're optimizing around and what what ratios, so to speak, what season? This? I think it's that intentionality that billionaire I don't think my old boss he was not he never had a point when he was at 2025 35 where he said this is what I want out of my life.

00:31:12:04 - 00:31:45:01
Itamar Marani
In this ratio, it was just blinded by I need more, I need more. Everything else is out of sight. He was intentional about the guys that I've seen at the eight nine figure level that also have a lot of other things work out really well. You can tell there's a level of intentionality and a level of discipline. Because of that intentionality, they're aware that it's very attractive to try to grow the next business record to the next level, but to say, I want to do that and I will do that, however, not at the sacrifice or the cost of this thing that I'm also is very important, and I want to say this very clearly,

00:31:45:01 - 00:31:56:12
Itamar Marani
I am not the guy to tell people don't make money, that I'll make a lot of money. Just make sure that it doesn't come at the cost. Some that's even more extent, more valuable.

00:31:56:14 - 00:32:42:11
Alex De Fina
I had a personal story where I was going through a very tough time. I had millions of dollars of financial losses at the hands of fraud and corruption of someone who I trusted very dearly because I was on a warpath of when this business, which is this number, everything in my life is solved now. And I made a conscious decisions to to not give energy, to relationships, to my own health, my own happiness along the way, because I was so optimized towards a certain business outcome that they weren't necessarily blind spots.

00:32:42:11 - 00:33:17:18
Alex De Fina
They were they were conscious, you know, letting things go. And then when that pot of gold metaphorically was was taken away, I was smacked in the face with those oversights because I had justified them on the path. But now that the the outcome wasn't wasn't there and it was my sister who was talking about my brother and we hadn't spoken for a while and she said that my brother was disowning me, that he did want to speak to me.

00:33:17:20 - 00:33:43:02
Alex De Fina
And it smacked me in the face because I thought, you know, when I reach this point, I solve everyone's financial problems, everyone's mortgages disappear, everyone's kids have trust funds. I have solved one's problems, but didn't recognize that what they wanted was a brother, a sibling, a friend that no one ever, you know, bestowed some obligation on me that I had to go on to solve their problems.

00:33:43:04 - 00:34:02:01
Alex De Fina
So sort of realizing that we can all fall into this traps, you know, when my business just reached this next milestone or next round of funding, when this next thing happens, everything will be fixed. It's like, no, that funding issue will be fixed. But your marriage issues, your health issues, your general sense of happiness or community, whatever is important to you will still remain.

00:34:02:03 - 00:34:22:12
Alex De Fina
And if you ignorant of that, or if you're not intentional about what you do put attention into or not, it will likely come back and bite you in order of magnitude. So of experience that I see that happened in many other people's business and personal lives. I think it's very important that we're aware of that as we go.

00:34:22:14 - 00:34:29:15
Alex De Fina
It's always easy to look at the next goalpost, but often we only reflect on these things in hindsight. The post mortem this year.

00:34:29:15 - 00:34:49:22
Itamar Marani
Shadow Man And I think that's an interesting thing because I'll share and in first thing because my example that is in verse, but I was still blinded and not intentional about what you're saying here, that you weren't intentional about it, you weren't really thinking about this thing through the whole context of it. So you just overindexed in trying to make money.

00:34:50:00 - 00:35:08:10
Itamar Marani
What happened to me is that I went all in on jujitsu because I was really passionate about it. I want to do something that I love. I was intentional about houses actually, for the rest of my life, financially, financially. After a while, I'm broke. This is a profit. And then I had to change. But it was the same place.

00:35:08:13 - 00:35:31:05
Itamar Marani
I didn't start out with a really high level of potential and awareness, like, how does this all work together? So that is a question that I would like to leave people with. Three lessons were the first money doesn't buy a lot. The second is that you'll never outspend your security and three, that you got to recognize what traits are you're indexing for and in what context.

00:35:31:07 - 00:35:56:11
Itamar Marani
But really the main lesson is are you being intentional about the life you want to live on? A really high level, holistic level? Because if you're not, you might really, really, really succeed in a way that won't actually make you happy or make you fulfilled the moment you satisfy. You might be that very wealthy, financially wealthy billionaire has a very poor existence, very unhappy and miserable.

00:35:56:13 - 00:36:13:08
Itamar Marani
So if any of this stuff hits home, I encourage you strongly take a step back, accept what kind of life you actually want to live than what's necessary. We're don't to shift where you need to adjust what's required in order to get that kind of life. Any final thoughts from you?

00:36:13:10 - 00:36:34:04
Alex De Fina
Notice there's a lot there. I think any one of those lessons could have been a podcast. Just thought by itself that really, really important because I think this is what plagues entrepreneurs outside of just the trophies in the cabinet is the knock on effects that it has on the rest of our life. And so I think these have been really, really valuable lessons.

00:36:34:04 - 00:36:35:01
Alex De Fina
And I'm grateful for you.

00:36:35:04 - 00:36:44:17
Itamar Marani
I'm grateful for your show and our example that was very powerful. But so I hope everyone enjoyed this episode. We'll see you in the next podcast. Enjoy the rest of the week. Bye.