Itamar Marani:
So I'm here today with a good friend and former client Noel Andrews. He is the owner of job rack. And after 15 years of recruiting and leading teams with large corporations and technology functions, Noah is now the owner of job rock. It's a company that helps people find and source talent from Eastern Europe. Correct? That's right. All right. And no, it was a former client we work together in I want to say mid 2020. And we spoke about a month ago, we just had this 15 minute catch up, and you're like, I have this kind of issue. And we kind of broke it down. But on top of that, you just told me what you're doing these days. And I thought it was amazing. So I wanted to hop on and share it. So what did you tell us for this for everyone listening, where you kind of started with working together, like Job rock 1.0, and what 2.0 has come today, and we'll talk about what helped you get there as far as mindset.

Noel Andrews 0:50
Yeah, so thanks. So yeah, brief summary. So I bought job right back in 2018. It was it been sidelined. The guys that owned it before, it's kind of worked on it really hard. But then it was kind of a bit of a sideline for for their big thing. And it was doing $15 a month, one $5 a month in revenue when I bought it, and so which means it wasn't very expensive. But it also means that I have the accolade for buying a business for an infinity multiple. So I don't think too many people do that. But there's also some wonderful vanity metrics about you know, 3,000x in revenue and things like that. So, which is good. So, yeah, we, I focused very heavily for the first couple of years on get what I refer to as job right one point out, so a very conventional DIY job board money while you sleep, in a sense, people pay in $199 per job posted, making sure they had a great service. But I wanted it to be bigger. And you know, when you're kind of charging that much, you can't kind of spend an awful lot of marketing, unless you're very, very deep pockets. And Job prep 2.0 was a shift into hiring services. And that's what has powered our growth. That's what has got us to where we're rapidly heading towards being a seven figure business. And getting me to finally to the stage of getting, you know, sensible paycheck for the business, which is a big milestone.

Itamar Marani 2:07
So here's the main theme I really want to talk about today. Well we talked about is you've now moved to London, since we started working together. And you said that's been a big, big shift and helping you really just kind of grow and do bigger things. And a theme is that a lot of people don't recognize how much our personal lives affect our ability to honestly be effective in our business. And for you there was a major shift around that. And I would love it if you'd be open to talking about that kind of what what happened there? And how, how that all worked out that we can give people the background?

Noel Andrews 2:39
Yeah, sure. Thanks. So I was living in the southwest of England, I was married and kind of living in a very conventional and a good life. And certain things just kind of weren't just kind of weren't resonating in some in some senses. And I was having thoughts around, like what did I want what was really, really most important to me for life and for kind of mid to long term kind of future. And so when we started working together, the the first thing was very much around, like, what's my why? Right? What did I really want. And I mean, it community and the Dynamite Circle, were kind of people focused on this quite a lot. And they've written quite a lot about it, which was very kind of inspirational. And it was clear to me that I didn't have a why I wasn't really sure I knew there were some things I wanted to do, but not necessarily why. And as a result, I didn't have that kind of driving force to keep me going on a day to day. So we did kind of some really, really great work over the course of like, kind of like six months or so. And the first few months of that was figuring out right, well, actually what's most important to me, how do I want to feel every day. And some of those were really comfortable. Some of those are really uncomfortable, and have it happy to to kind of dig into those two. But one of the kind of outcomes, partly of the work that we did, and partly of me getting clear about what was really important to me was that, you know, I did choose to kind of change my kind of my personal situation. So that involved kind of a kind of breakup of the relationship, a big, big change to kind of home life. And me moving from the southwest of England, and up to up to London at the back end of 2020. So yes, real big shift. It was the right thing. And I'm very fortunate and pleased that the you know, I'm still very, very good friends with my ex and got on really well my stepsons, and we've all got really good close relationships. And some of that is I think he's through how we've chosen to do it. It doesn't all have to be throwing frying pans and arguing. But yeah, that was the that was kind of the background and then that kind of the big shift into effectively, you know, a very different and very new life for me.

Itamar Marani 4:43
Yeah, so to distill this for the audience, I think what happens a lot of times is when we feel there's certain friction in life, but we haven't really clarified what we want that friction is not going to go away. But once we really clarify what we want then we can set out a certain intentionality but how do we want to live our life out? Does that look and then, like what I'm assuming you said, then certain uncomfortable decisions or realities had to be faced because it wasn't a life that you really wanted? Is that correct?

Noel Andrews 5:09
Yeah. And even like before that even when we were thinking about how did I want to feel every day? And the thing that you said to me once you said, yeah, so you want to feel appreciated. And like that the most one of the most overt, most kind of times that I've ever really wrestled, like, because I felt like no, that's really needed. And it was my own interpretation of like, what does it mean to be appreciated? And ironic, given how my entire strategy and my entire ethos is be helpful and friendly. So it was interesting to kind of like, dig into that and go, Wow, like it was, again, it was just triggering the semantics of a particular word. But yeah, then there were obviously other things as well. And I worked through a lot of stuff around, you know, what, who am I to want more? Who am I to want different when I had, you know, by all conventional standards, a really, really good life.

Itamar Marani 5:56
So let's dig into that. Let's talk about because I remember when we first talked about the whole beliefs and all that you're like, Nah, man, I think I'm good. I don't think I have any. And we were the first limit, the first person I've ever worked with, I think I've gotten to that point, I got it. But now you're so open about it. And you're so clear, like, this was actually the thing that was holding you back, there was a big Domino. So what was that process for you of recognizing this is perfectly valid for me to want more, and doesn't mean that I'm bad person, or that I'm greedy, or whatever in the big.

Noel Andrews 6:24
So I think there's a few things. So one was around kind of conversation, and kind of deep and open conversations. And I'd realized I went to an event in Bangkok. And when I came back from that event, I was having a chat with some other people that had been there. And they were like, Oh, it was amazing. Like, all the kind of deep open conversation was just so good. And I kind of had a little moment I was like, Yeah, didn't didn't really feel that. And then I was like, Well, why? And, and that, you know, had good conversations, but not that kind of deep open conversations. And ultimately, it was because there was just a misalignment with me, and, you know, kind of in a little bit the life that I was living, and the things that I wanted, and the things I kind of almost, I hadn't realized that I wanted. And it's a bit like me saying to you, and excuse the phrase, but it's a bit like me saying, Do you once upon a time? Yeah, yeah, I don't think I've got any headship, you know, they aren't good. And that was just a really clear indication of that. I didn't spend time just thinking, and reflecting and feeling. And that's it. And that is a work in progress across a few different aspects of life, and there's loads of things that I've done for many, many years, to prevent me needing to feel negative emotions. And to kind of like just kind of short circuit that. So yeah, it kind of started very much with that, or figuring out what I want. And then just kind of getting comfortable with the right well, actually there are I have got some he have got some kind of limiting beliefs and then right going right, which of these are most important to deal with first, and then kind of breaking those down. And, and some of it is just a reframing, whether it's as simple as me having a conversation with a friend about treadmill sprints, and we're both into like, really hard workouts. And he said to me, one day, he's like, Yay, I'm doing like sprints at like, 20 kilometers an hour. And my mind was blown. I was like, hang on what the treadmill goes that fast. I didn't think it went past 16, or those 10 miles now. And suddenly, it was like someone had just opened up this opportunity that I could go faster. And again, it's the same thing with limiting beliefs. It's that bit of breaking down, and just almost kind of exposing myself and my mind to the idea that actually more or different might be possible. And that I might want that.

Itamar Marani 8:31
Yeah, I think a big part of is understanding the limiting beliefs, sometimes it's regards to eliminate another, just false. And that's the big thing that sometimes we wake up to, and we're like, whoa, if this is really just not true, forget about limiting positive, all that kind of jazz, but it's just a false belief. And I can let go of it, it really frees you a lot to kind of encapsulate everything you said, the way I looked at it from the outside, you want it to have from what I remember, it was feeling appreciated, living, constantly evolving, and having the freedom to pursue, you wanted to pursue more things, try new things grow, etc, etc. And when I looked at it, there were a couple of constraints that were stopping you from doing that. First, was the clarity on what do you actually want? What does this actually mean? Like why do you want to do all this? And then once you got clarity on that, you can create intentionality around you create a game plan. Remember, when we broke down, we broke down, what does this actually mean? How do you need to build what do you need to do? And then the last part was a whole emotional fortitude part about the beliefs. And what I would love to say from your story, anybody out there is, if you think you don't have anything, that means you probably have such a wealth of potential if you actually tackle this, because you haven't even really taken on the beginner gains of starting to notice. Okay, I have this I have that but you're completely blind to something you could have so much potential there. Do you agree with that?

Noel Andrews 9:48
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And just yet, give one very specific example that wasn't like a particularly emotional one. But you know, one of the things that we realized is that for me, if I Don't see visible results. I feel like I'm not making progress. That was a huge one across business across personal life across like weight and food or things like that. That was like a really significant that's kind of really stood out. And as soon as you know, we identified that it just enabled a shift to like, Well, no, hang on, if I just do the right things, the results will come.

Itamar Marani 10:19
Yeah, that was I remember, that was a big one, I actually had it in my notes to bring it up. I want to talk another one that actually I remembered affecting your business a lot, because you came from a consultancy background, where your job was literally paid notice be around and put out fires if they come about. And we realized that you had basically subconsciously created a definition of success, to put out fires, if I put out fires, that means I'm successful. And when all of a sudden, we broke that down and said, Is this really such is this really successful? Or is thinking strategic successful, that's when things took off a lot. So I would love for you to kind of elaborate on that, from your perspective, how it went down, and what advice you can offer on that.

Noel Andrews 10:56
So I'd spent the best part of 15 years, working hard, being very decisive, lots of rapid decision making, in often firefighting type situations, in very, very large corporations, kind of getting shit done. That was that was what I did. And that was what I was brought in to do. And I loved it. And I enjoyed it, I loved the pace and everything that went with it. And you know, you get certain amount recognition, you get known for being, you know, we've got problem, he's the go to guy, there's water pouring through the kind of the datacenter roof and the server room roof. And I was going to fix that, you know, just this is the team We need. And that was cool. But then as I kind of as I gained more experience, and I got like set into roles where I was kind of an insurance policy, right, so I was there, that actually I was valued on my contribution, not the hours worked. And that was difficult to reconcile initially. But then you recognize that actually, yeah, you know, the bums on seats on the number of hours, your laptop is not actually a measure of success and a measure of value. And that getting kind of comfortable with that was key. And that has carried forward into kind of how I work now. So there are times when you know, I just need to be, you know, kind of in front of in chair time in front of laptop, doing the things. But there's other times when actually the best thing I could do is just take for take half a day away off, and then do a one hour of absolute solid quality, like strategic work. And that is recognizing when that's the case, when you just need to grind stuff out versus when you just need to take the time out and then do the kind of the top quality that the big things. That's been the biggest learning for me. And it's a continual learning for me as I try and you know, improve how I focus on things. improve how I think about things. So you know, trying to reflect at the end of the day and going, what was the quality of what I did today? Not what was the quantity?

Itamar Marani 12:44
Do you think that's what allowed it I was gonna ask exactly that, like, what do you think is allowed you to make that, that change, especially someone who said like, you'd like seeing instant results, you like going on the treadmill, seeing yourself sweating, it's like, Okay, I'm getting a workout. What allowed you to actually make that leap of faith almost to say, I don't have to see instant results, but I'm gonna make the effort. And hopefully something big will come with this.

Noel Andrews 13:04
So a little bit of evidence, so just a little bit of, you know, you do something and then a little while later it comes good. And then just gonna go well, what if I did more of that, and you know, it might be delayed, and that's okay. spending, you know, obviously the work that we did, and just identifying that and just, you know, writing it down and having it and saying actually that is true. If we do the right things, the results will come up, you know, I tried for years to you know, I'd set fire to $10,000 on Facebook ads, I tried all kinds different strategies. And I was always looking for that perfect marketing strategy, for instance. And then I realized that actually being helpful and friendly is a perfectly valid approach to build a successful business. And again, that that's not an overnight kind of thing. So I think for me, it was just you once it's not. Yeah, exactly, you just got to kind of leave it and that's where it needs to be authentic. And that was what great, great for me that it is. So I think it was just trying it. And then just seeing some little green shoots of success and results from it. And then this is all across both both business and personal as well. And then just trying it and then just kind of thinking, Well, what if I do more of that, and it's still a work in progress, right? It will always be a work in progress. But I spend a lot more of my time now being strategic and you know, there was one particular moment that we had that was a real shift. But really it's just trying to do the things see the results and just have confidence that if they are the right things, then you know the results will come.

Itamar Marani 14:33
Yeah, what was that moment? I'm curious when for you.

Noel Andrews 14:37
So we were talking about how much money I wanted to earn. And so at the time job at 1.0 The target I really wanted to get job right what job right to be a six figure business right I wanted to hit $100,000 in revenue and annualized revenue. And you will challenge me perfectly validates it to Well, I knew what job rap 2.0 was going to If I knew what the done with you and done for you hiring services were going to be, they were 10x, the price of the job posts and dropped by 1.0. And you would challenge me going well, why don't you just do your best to point out because you're gonna get six figures way quicker. And but in my head, it was like this unfinished thing. I was like, no, no, I want to get the job post to it. And that kind of like, had to just kind of like bubble for a little while before I kind of did make that jump. But you'd said to me, we were talking about how much I wanted to earn. And I said a figure. And then you were like, and it was like, kind of 10 came up, right? Good, good salary, six figure salary. And you said, what if you took on 50 came up. And it takes a good amount to like, trigger me financially, I feel I'm reasonably comfortable spending money, stuff like that. But I was just like, I was like speechless. And just like, again, mind blown it. And at the time, I was like, I don't know, what would I do with that money. And later, I was just beta is going to be, and it kind of, and now as I'm looking ahead, that is less of an issue. You know, I had an application recently. So I'm hiring for an assistant for myself. And I had someone apply who has experience with a luxury concierge service, right. And one of the things that she wrote, she's very experienced in arranging private jet travel. And there was a little bit of me that was like, Okay, there's a good few reasons why she's not the right candidate for the role. But for that reason alone, I really liked the idea of having someone on the team that knows how to arrange private jets. And so we had some good fun with the team going there. We're not quite at that stage. In fact, we're nowhere near that stage, just to be really clear, but the idea of going to kind of like, you know, arrange the jet send it to bring the dean to London, just it was quite funny. But then there's a little bit in like, that's not it's not completely insane. You know, so it was that moment where you were just kind of it was that challenge to think bigger. And it's very easy to kind of box ourselves in and think at a particular level that is comfortable.

Itamar Marani 16:54
Yeah, I remember the 20k I think was your ceiling. From what I remember the mindset ceiling, as soon as we hit 20k, you were like, I don't know if that's comfortable. That's that might be a bit too much. Why would I even need that? I was like, why not? What's wrong with that? Cool. I mean, is this Is there anything that we didn't cover, you're like, this was a big lesson. This is something that really helped me get from where it was to where I am today that I think a lot of people are they're confused, they could utilize and you can just help a lot of people, this is my experience.

Noel Andrews 17:27
The single thing for me over this last few years, that has transformed the quality, I think of the relationships and the connections that I've got, is being vulnerable, being open and vulnerable. And learning how to do that. And frankly, it's been remarkable, whether it's with people that are in my kind of community entrepreneurs, business owners, etc. Or whether it's friends that I've had for 2030 years. As soon as I wasn't just the guy that the Duracell bunny that just got shit done, it was always plowing through it was doing everything kind of thing. As soon as I just showed vulnerability, and just talked reopening, it was really interesting how it just friendships just ratcheted up levels, like just went to levels that we've never been there before. Because people felt comfortable in that opening up. And that is something that is really like hyper important to me, a big part of my life right now is making sure that I'm always having, you know, striving for better quality conversations. And, you know, getting past that, you know, the shit chat, the the small talk, stuff like that, and going kind of deep with people. And so me being vulnerable, and me being open is what has enabled that. So that I think is that probably the single thing that came from, you know, a lot of that came from the work we did and then then a lot of practice.

Itamar Marani 18:54
Yeah. So I was gonna ask that because you, you're a fan of the small steps, like you said, I took small steps I saw that worked, and then I kept moving forward. So how would you recommend somebody take a small step with this, whether it's with a significant other, whether it's with a business partner, or business relationship? How do they start that path? How did you start that path?

Noel Andrews 19:14
So with the vulnerability I, I went, jumped into the deep end a little bit on that side of things, because there was a huge amount going on in life and there was a lot of change going on. And so I just started talking to people about it. I think for anyone else in you know, maybe not contemplating quite such a big change. A good question that I've come across recently is what's niggling you? And this doesn't always translate well, but like a niggle is like a minor annoyance. And so if you ask someone you know what's frustrating you right now, a lot of people would be like, nothing much really, I don't get that frustrated. But if you like if you say like what's niggling you right now, and then then people can kind of open up with kind of, oh, actually, this is, you know, this is a little bit of a thing. But for you personally and asking yourself that question just being actually, what would I if there were no holds barred? So no social conventions that you needed to abide by, you know, what would you just like to be really open with? And actually, this often works better with strangers than than with people, you know? Right. But the value you get from being open with people, you know, yeah, exactly no consequence, right? So I think it's just spending a little bit of time again, you know, what would I, what would I love to share with someone, even if they just listened and they don't respond, and then just Just try it?

Itamar Marani 20:25
I want to expand on that, because that's so valuable. So what I've seen a lot of people is they use the word frustrated. People don't give themselves permission to voice what they don't like until they're, let's say, at a level one through 10, eight frustrated, and we're noticing what if you just give yourself that permission, even when you're in level one. And you don't have to deal with all the aggression, any anger or anxiety or whatever it may be. But just when this starts, something starts to bother you to be open about, you can do it in a really peaceful in a great way it can get you also better results. And I think you were saying at the very beginning of our conversation about is this okay to do this earn more money to live a different life, whatever it may be. It's the same thing here. It's like it is okay to also voice your displeasure before it gets to a boiling point. It doesn't have to get to a boiling point for people to give themselves permission to say this is not okay for me. Is that accurate?

Noel Andrews 21:13
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think so one of the things that I've worked on, I've been very open about now for the last few years is, you know, I've historically and yeah, let's say historically, suffered with food challenges, right. So I would eat to flag an emotion effectively. And I'm a master at this, I am really, really good at this. Right? So working with someone recently. And you know, I learned about the three F's of food, right? And you eat for fun, you eat for fuel, and you eat to flag an emotion. And so it was suggested to me that sometimes I would feel a negative emotion, and then I would eat, and then I would eat kind of mindlessly. And I was like, Nah, I don't do that. That's not quite right. And the person I was working with, and she was like, your show, I was like, Yeah, I'm way more advanced than that. I never actually feel the negative emotion. I am so highly tuned, like chocolate bar, I can go straight to eat it. And, and this is this has been fascinating as a realisation candidate. And so I'm working at the moment on actually feeling the feelings. And I had a moment like a couple of weeks ago, where I felt the feelings. And basically, I've been told that I couldn't work out for a couple of weeks, because I sprained my wrist. And I don't like being told that I can't do things. I don't like being anything less than 110%. And so like, I was in a place where I could have bought food, I looked at the food, and I was like, No, that's not going to solve that. That's not I know what's going on here. It's not going to solve it. And so I just sat with these uncomfortable feelings. And I remembered messaging my, my coach that I'm working with, and I was just like, Okay, so I'm doing it. But this feels rubbish. I don't like it. Like, what a normal people do when they feel these feel these feelings. And she came back and said, Well, you know, interesting definition of normal. And so what I'd say to anyone kind of listening is, you know, for me, it's really easy. Like, I know that historically, I've turned to food, when instead of feeling, you know, a negative emotion, for other people who might be drinking other people, it might be all kinds of different things. But sometimes you actually have to look at your behavior, to figure out what's really going on, because you might not be feeling those emotions. And so whatever your circumstance might be, whether you're not getting where you want your business, or you're not spending your time how you want to do, or food, or drink, or drugs or whatever. Sometimes it's almost looking at that behavior. What are you doing? And then thinking about why am I doing it? And if you're doing something that you later think, Yeah, that wasn't ideal, then, you know, perhaps there's something else beneath that of going on? And what is it is it you're not really happy? Is it you're not living the genuine life that you want? Is it that you feel or your body and your mind is conscious that you're capable of more, but it's a fear or this kind of like, you know, false belief or limiting belief. And so that's a big thing for me recently is coming across the idea that actually our behavior can inform and guidance where maybe we're not so emotionally attuned as, as we might like to be. Yeah,

Itamar Marani 24:02
I want to I want to summarize that in two ways, I think you said it was really great. First off, busy, if you have not really dealt with your emotions ever, you need to do it. Because they are there. Just the fact that you ignore them doesn't mean that they're not there, it doesn't mean they don't influence your behavior. And that's a big thing to be cognizant of. I think a lot of people don't want to deal with it. Because then they're afraid they're gonna get sucked down, it's actually going to be a hindrance to them, because you're gonna get all emotional and sappy or volatile, whatever it may be. But it's actually the opposite you actually dealing with in confronting and allows you to build a certain sense of fortitude around the word doesn't control you as much, and you're aware of it. So that's number one. Would you agree with that? Yeah, absolutely. Right. And to what you were saying about there's ways to know with our behaviors model I love is ABC triangle, because the A is effect B is body or behavior and the C's cognitive. So if you notice, and you can ask somebody when I get frustrated when I get a bit anxious when I get a bit Anxi whatever it may be. First off, how do you think I feel? What is the vibe I give off? Am I angry? Am I agitated? Am I tense? Am I nervous? You can understand that B is the body of behavior. So physically what happens? Do a piece around or crack my knuckles? Do I get a cold sweat in the back of my neck or my pom shake you whatever it may be. And finally see is the self talk the cognitive? And if you understand what do you say to yourself during these times, you can catch it so that way when it starts popping up in your head, like, oh, wait, I'm being emotional because one of these cues that's popped up, it's a really powerful way to understand what's going on. We have to take a step back and say, Okay, I'm emotional right now. Let me not act on something that I might regret later. And let me know what's going on here.

Noel Andrews 25:42
Yeah, definitely. And the like, almost like the third little summary I'd add it's just a few words that I heard on a podcast recently is feeling the feelings will make you rich.

Itamar Marani 25:53
Right, you're right, you're cool. No, I really appreciate it man. And I love seeing your success. Like we're we're we're job rock started 1.0 where it is right now. Like you're you're on your way to seven. That's so amazing man. Couldn't be happier. Thank you