How Our Wants Make Us Stupid & Why We Rebranded the Pod | Elite Performance Podcast #45

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:10
Itamar Marani
For me, it's easier to push harder than it is to say, "I did something stupid here and I need to change". I can say that. But what's my natural level is. "How can I just push harder?" And I think a lot of us also come from, let's call a more physical background, jujitsu, whatever it may be.

00:00:15:12 - 00:00:39:18
Itamar Marani
We learned we become really, really good at pushing harder because that actually gives a lot of results there. And sometimes we default to that when it's not the right thing to do. Welcome to today's episode, everyone. We're going to be talking about why we rebranded the podcast, why sometimes our blindspots get in the way, and why sometimes it's not actually our blindspots, but it's our desires and wants that cause us to purposely not look at the truth, even though we can see it.

00:00:39:20 - 00:00:57:16
Itamar Marani
So this episode today is going to be very helpful for you if there's something that you really want to see succeed or an employee you really want to work out, or some kind of project, whatever it may be that you really, really want to make happen. There's an emotional connection there, but it's not going the way you'd like to actually see it go.

00:00:57:18 - 00:01:11:23
Itamar Marani
So what are we going to be talking about? Today is a lot about how we can understand when we're ignoring reality, how to make sure you don't ignore that and what to do about it, as well as a couple of common mistakes. And in that whole case, we were talking about why we rented the pod and how I came to that realization.

00:01:12:01 - 00:01:15:00
Itamar Marani
So with that said, Alex, thank you for joining us.

00:01:15:02 - 00:01:20:19
Alexander De Fina
Thanks a lot. So to be here, I think I've made this mistake many times myself, so I'm excited to get into it.

00:01:20:21 - 00:01:24:06
Itamar Marani
Of course. Any initial thoughts before we get to cooking?

00:01:24:08 - 00:01:45:01
Alexander De Fina
I'm just really interested in the general topic. I think it's something which plagues entrepreneurs a lot. Very rarely do things work out faster, simpler, easier, better than we anticipated, and then tried to actually diagnose what was going wrong and how to improve. It is often the sort of murky territory where we sort of spin our wheels. So I'm really interested to want to dive into this topic.

00:01:45:03 - 00:02:12:18
Itamar Marani
Cool. So we're going to use the podcast as a case. It's going to explain this principle. Now, the podcast title was not working. I think we even got a review when somebody said, Don't let the podcast title fully the weird title for you is actually really good practical stuff. And it also took that review and I think you actually told me something about it in a couple that the guys told me as well, like do it like you have really good content in your podcast, but it kind of feels awkward to share because it's a weird title.

00:02:12:20 - 00:02:31:22
Itamar Marani
And the reality was that when I looked at it, I was like, Why am I not listening to reality? Reality is telling me something. I'm not listening to it. The podcast is really good. People are telling me they like it, but it's not growing. The way we would like. Something here is wrong. But and it wasn't a blind spot I got because I could see that people were telling me that I was aware of that.

00:02:32:00 - 00:02:52:06
Itamar Marani
However, the reality was that I was emotionally connected to something, and the moment we emotionally want something, we become illogical. That's literally the trick where you say someone, someone's being emotional. Here, you're not meaning, Oh, this person is being very rational and they're being illogical. And I got caught up on something. I remember like reading from Tim Ferriss.

00:02:52:06 - 00:03:11:14
Itamar Marani
He's saying the power of owning a term from him. It was a lifestyle design. He owned that, and that was always something that was associated with him. And I remember in the back of this thing, I want to own the term. What if I could own a term like emotional fortitude, but nobody else wanted that? The people coming to the program that people want to listen to the podcast, they're not interested in that.

00:03:11:14 - 00:03:20:12
Itamar Marani
They don't even know what that means. It just creates confusion. And I was not willing to accept reality because I was blinded by my emotional loss.

00:03:20:14 - 00:03:26:07
Alexander De Fina
And I think I'm so sorry to cut it out, but did you just say that you have emotions.

00:03:26:09 - 00:03:31:08
Itamar Marani
I do even wants and all that kind of okay, I've taken security and all that kind of good stuff.

00:03:31:10 - 00:03:34:02
Alexander De Fina
It actually has emotions.

00:03:34:04 - 00:03:56:22
Itamar Marani
So Doug joking aside, it's funny because people often are surprised when I talk about that. I think the reason I'm able to be an expert in this field is because I also experience and I learned how to deal. I think truthfully, I am a less emotional person than most people, and that's why I'm able to also kind of like go out of it and see it from a different angle because I'm not so caught up in it.

00:03:57:00 - 00:04:10:10
Itamar Marani
But if I was completely void of it, let's say I wouldn't be able to actually understand how he's going on. I wouldn't be able to have that experience and translate how to get past it or whatever it may be. I think I look at the emotional spectrum. I'm just enough where I have enough emotions to understand what it is.

00:04:10:12 - 00:04:16:03
Itamar Marani
And I also don't have too much where I get overwhelmed by it. I think that's what allows me to to play really well in this field.

00:04:16:03 - 00:04:19:15
Alexander De Fina
Such a great you know, I think that's just about it.

00:04:19:17 - 00:04:24:23
Itamar Marani
But I appreciate you giving me a little bit of shit about it, but everybody.

00:04:25:01 - 00:04:25:23
Alexander De Fina
Really move on.

00:04:26:01 - 00:04:52:20
Itamar Marani
Go. All right, So here's the thing again. The moment we want something and we start to think in terms of I hope or I want or I'd like, or that would be great instead of it would make sense that this is how things will work out. Things start to change. We basically lose half our IQ. All of a sudden we become emotionally attached and we're actually thinking, Wait, what is reality telling me this is likely to work or not likely to work?

00:04:52:22 - 00:05:14:17
Itamar Marani
We lose our ability to judge things based on what they are because we just see them for how we would like for them to be. And that's what happened with the podcast. Like, I didn't think about it from the first principle of, okay, we're using it as a tool to help people and also draw more clients. So both these people that want to be helped and for this potential clients, what would be the simplest way for them to enter our world?

00:05:14:18 - 00:05:35:00
Itamar Marani
What do they actually care about? They care about being elite performers, achieving better results, uncovering their biases and achieving better results. Business, personal life, all that kind. Just nobody cares. Nobody comes. Like you said this very well. Nobody comes with a place of like, Oh, I'm emotionally fragile, so I need emotional support. I ignored reality because I wanted to own a term.

00:05:35:02 - 00:05:44:02
Itamar Marani
I had a certain wants, and that superseded my logic. And I think that's a very dangerous place to be. So first off, any questions about that?

00:05:44:04 - 00:06:10:04
Alexander De Fina
No, no questions. I think I fall into the same trap again many times. And so that was, I guess, the catalyst for you sort of reconsidering this rebrand. Was that recognition or the realization that, hey, the growth is not growing aligned to my expectation and the negative feedback which I've been receiving from from my current audience. Therefore, I sort of realize that there's something's off.

00:06:10:06 - 00:06:13:02
Alexander De Fina
Would that be a fair assessment?

00:06:13:04 - 00:06:36:03
Itamar Marani
Yes. And more specifically, like I want to get into the tool that actually helped me really like pinpoint that. So I get into the framework not to want to second to. So that's that. But again, I want to like before we go into that, I just want to lay it on a principle level that the smart place to figure out a strategy that is likely to work, not to go with what you would want to hear those two very different things.

00:06:36:05 - 00:06:56:09
Itamar Marani
What I would want to work is very naive. It's not taking into account how the world actually works. That's a very tale. And I think if I just manifest this, some people will like it. But actually saying the same place to figure out, okay, what is likely to work here? Not for me because I have my wants, but if somebody else was trying to accomplish this, what would be the smart move?

00:06:56:11 - 00:07:13:04
Itamar Marani
And when we simply ask that question, we have that what they call the psychological distance, where I don't think about it from what I want, but is it for somebody else So I don't have any connection with I don't have any my desires aren't theirs. What would probably work for them, they're probably going to give me a much better insight as to what would be more effective than this.

00:07:13:04 - 00:07:23:23
Itamar Marani
Something saying, How would I go about this? This is when we say, How would I go about this? What should I do? We always attach our desires and our wants and our emotions to that. Mm hmm.

00:07:24:01 - 00:07:51:16
Alexander De Fina
I that's something which I have. I believe that I have a pretty good ability to read in others, but a terrible ability to read in myself until I'm confronted with it. That difference between what would I like to happen, what would I want it to happen compared to what is probabilistically the most likely to happen. It's funny how our emotions can just going to creep up on us and and take over the steering wheel.

00:07:51:18 - 00:08:08:02
Itamar Marani
Yeah, it's something my mom told me when I was a teenager. She said, attacks you. We were talking about how I wasn't able to see something and it's just explained to me very clearly. And there's an expression that if somebody came to me with my exact set of problems that I could not solve my entire life, I would set them on the way and 30 minutes to figure it out.

00:08:08:04 - 00:08:28:19
Itamar Marani
And just as a kind of a segue way to what we're doing today, that tool of psychological distance, I'm just saying not what what should I do here, but what would I recommend that somebody else in this situation do? What should somebody else in this situation do? All of a sudden, it creates so much more clarity. It's like, I think, trying to ask ourselves, what should I do here?

00:08:28:19 - 00:08:49:03
Itamar Marani
And how can I be aware of my emotions that are steering me? Possibly the wrong direction or whatever it may be? It's very complicated. It's very challenging. A workaround there on that is just simply ask what should somebody else do if they have these kind of goals and they're just kind of starting what be the most effective because all of a sudden we don't take into account their possible insecurities, their possible wants, whatever it may be.

00:08:49:08 - 00:09:05:15
Itamar Marani
There's like, this is technically the most effective thing for them to do with us. We avoid asking ourselves, what's the most technically, technically effective thing to do? Because oftentimes that's also the most emotionally uncomfortable. So we naturally just try to steer away from that, recognizing.

00:09:05:17 - 00:09:30:06
Alexander De Fina
Do believe that emotional discomfort comes from a place of, well, it's conscious or subconscious recognizing that we don't have the capabilities or the domain knowledge to actually make the most effective and efficient decisions. So our emotions kind of take take control, because the analogy that I'm thinking of here is if I was trying to drive from Rome to Barcelona in the most efficient and effective manner.

00:09:30:07 - 00:09:51:09
Alexander De Fina
Google Maps is my friend. So tell me how to get there in the best way possible. Not which way do I think I should go? Which way would I like to go? I'm just going to use a tool that I have. But in business we do this all the time. So do you think it's just our emotions fill the void because we don't actually really know how to measure test or we don't have to Google Maps business?

00:09:51:11 - 00:10:22:05
Itamar Marani
Honestly, no, because like, if let's run through this kind of filter, I have what I have found working with over 100 entrepreneurs going from like 6 to 9 figures that they're really when they're really stuck on a problem, they can usually at least understand what the first most effective step moving forward is by simply asking what should somebody else in this situation that they might not have the blueprint all the way from Barcelona to Rome, but they'll definitely know, okay, from Barcelona, I need to go on the highway and from there I'll figure out the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.

00:10:22:06 - 00:10:38:15
Itamar Marani
And as soon as you get people out of their own heads and again, this is me included as the example you're showing, we're able to at least figure out what is the next step is going to show us the next step that would show something again, that would show somebody else the next step that would show somebody else the next effective step and building from there.

00:10:38:17 - 00:10:53:16
Itamar Marani
A lot of times it's like the opposite when when it's us and we don't know the whole way, we don't even go. Sometimes a lot of people just come over somebody else. You're like, Oh, do just do the first thing. Then you'll figure it out. Put out the MVP, then you'll get feedback on it. Then you grow and then you figure out your marketing channel.

00:10:53:16 - 00:11:15:03
Itamar Marani
That's our life. That's a cycle. And it doesn't go unless I know the super works. I'm not going to go for makes sense. So I want to explain the tool that kind of helped me realize it put me in my tracks so you can force me to look at this. So we just did a month with my old officer from the Special Forces be the officer general program.

00:11:15:05 - 00:11:38:01
Itamar Marani
So for context, he is one of the five officers that are special, that ex special forces officers that are also McKinsey grads in Israel, and they run a program called Officer General, which takes people from the military, the police and the intelligence communities that are just below the general level, like high ranking officers. And it helps them become better strategic thinkers as they're about to graduating to the general rest.

00:11:38:03 - 00:11:56:00
Itamar Marani
And what he said is that there is this kind of cycle where you go first, like when the strategy is working or not working, you have to first stop and go through this kind of cycle, and it's a four part cycle. First off, there's embarrassment stage. To say reality has embarrassed me a little bit. My game plan has been exposed.

00:11:56:00 - 00:12:16:02
Itamar Marani
It's not working correctly and I need to own that. We're going to talk about this and then you go into the systematic inquiry saying like, what is actually going on here? What is the actual truth of the lay of the land of reality that I operate within? And then now that I better understand the actual truth of what's going on, how can I create a new strategy that number three and then number four implemented?

00:12:16:02 - 00:12:28:19
Itamar Marani
And it's kind of consistent cycle. We have a new strategy. You implement it. Again, there's flaws if it's a little bit embarrassing, whatever it may be, and for whatever any questions about that before you got.

00:12:28:21 - 00:12:30:11
Alexander De Fina
No questions about that.

00:12:30:13 - 00:12:48:15
Itamar Marani
Yeah. So for me, the embarrassment thing, because it was such a weird word and it's something that we often use in the agency or in the Special Forces. It uses words that are not part of your everyday vernacular in order to shift you out of your everyday think and embarrassment with that. For me, I was like, Oh, this is embarrassing.

00:12:48:15 - 00:13:06:06
Itamar Marani
Like I thought the podcast would be much further along, especially because I think we have good quality here. People say they really enjoy it, but the numbers don't match the expectations and I don't think this is just a volume play where if we just work harder and do more of the same is actually going to change the outcome.

00:13:06:07 - 00:13:25:02
Itamar Marani
But something is not working. And he gave that example. He said that how you quit embarrassment. I understand that it's actually something that needs to be changed. Is if, for example, you launch a product with the goal of making $1,000 in the first month and by week number three, you're only a 150 and there's no, you know, exponential growth curve.

00:13:25:04 - 00:13:42:02
Itamar Marani
It's foolish to say, I'll just work harder and it will work. It's like you need to acknowledge that the strategy isn't working and that you feel a bit embarrassed so that you can move on and you have to own that. Not to say, okay, I'm not embarrassed. I'm going to protect my ego by just pushing harder because that's easier than to own the emotional.

00:13:42:02 - 00:13:58:14
Itamar Marani
Like me saying I messed up. It feels a bit embarrassing. Especially I think a lot of us at times it's easier for us to work really hard and like grind our faces into the wall. Instead of owning that, we feel a bit embarrassed and for whatever reason, when he said that, I was like, Man, something with the podcast is embarrassing.

00:13:58:14 - 00:14:12:15
Itamar Marani
We should be doing better. And that was the first thing that really snapped me into saying, Okay, I need to reassess what's going on. So any thoughts, questions and your own from that?

00:14:12:17 - 00:14:35:01
Alexander De Fina
The question about discerning when you're potentially on track because a lot of things do have some kind of an exponential the hockey stick sort of moment. And there's plenty of business examples where something sucked forever and then the right person right time and they sort of cracked it. And as it reaches success and therefore the message is, you know, just keep plugging away to do the boring work.

00:14:35:03 - 00:15:00:10
Alexander De Fina
Whereas what you're saying is identifying almost like an equation so that you can become more aware of when you're behind where you should be. So I guess in your example, if I sit or say maybe that e-commerce example, the goal is to make $1,000 in a month, it's week three. If my only input in that equation is time, like each week equals $50 in sales.

00:15:00:15 - 00:15:22:03
Alexander De Fina
Now I've got one and a half weeks, the month remaining, is it likely that I'm going to make, you know, $850 in the last month? If the only variable I change is time and know that equation? Yes, would probably no. So it's probably not just time, like you were saying with the parties, but you don't just if spending more time in the trenches do more volume is probably a branding issue, maybe formatting.

00:15:22:03 - 00:15:30:11
Alexander De Fina
There's something else going on which is not giving it the the growth rate that you otherwise expected. Let me use the summary.

00:15:30:13 - 00:15:49:07
Itamar Marani
Very much because I think also what you're saying that the plugging away and doing the boring thing again, if you just keep plugging away and doing the boring things without changing anything, then it's just in time ish. It's like you have a great workout plan. Like you've seen this. You give somebody who's brand new to working out a workout plan and after the first week they're like, Dude, I'm not jacked it.

00:15:49:09 - 00:16:14:03
Itamar Marani
Yeah, you need more time under tension. There's nothing wrong with the plan. That's how it's supposed to work. But if someone's after like a year of working out, they don't see any results. Like, something here needs to change, do they? Maybe, Just maybe, whatever it may be, the intensity, whatever it may be, this understanding that and basically every so like sometimes people just need to plug away and keep doing the work and then eventually it's figured out you got to figure it out because you're probably changing something.

00:16:14:05 - 00:16:33:19
Itamar Marani
Yes. Or changing something. And this mechanism, this tool is to help you really clarify and said is something kind of feels off? Maybe we should change, maybe we should not. It just gives it a format to say, are we really on the right track? If not, it needed, let's cut it and let's figure out why. Let's re-orientate and go faster.

00:16:33:21 - 00:16:35:13
Itamar Marani
Mm hmm.

00:16:35:15 - 00:16:54:16
Alexander De Fina
I definitely yeah, absolutely. I definitely agree. Whether it's the working out analogy or how long does it take to grow a plant, there are certain things where it just does require a certain time, just part of the equation. Whereas often maybe those success stories that are shared in business, the person was grinding away forever, notifying attention, something that cracked it.

00:16:54:18 - 00:17:13:00
Alexander De Fina
It might not just be time, it might be What they were learning over that period of time was just constant iterations and the reason they cracked it, the market took notice just because what they were doing was fundamentally different to what they started doing now, years and months earlier was the improvement, not necessarily just the time.

00:17:13:02 - 00:17:26:15
Itamar Marani
Yeah, like the classic example is Edison. Like he would just keep trying and thousands of different things. He wasn't doing the same experiment a thousand times. He was tweaking variables every time. And then eventually you would come to his great invention.

00:17:26:17 - 00:17:37:04
Alexander De Fina
Do you find that's something which holds entrepreneurs back is like they don't make that differentiation. They use the Edison quote. So just I'm just going to keep going. It's like, well, Edison wasn't repeating the same experiment every time.

00:17:37:06 - 00:17:52:07
Itamar Marani
What I found from seeing the kind of entrepreneurs that I work with, the more 80 people that have a lot of sense of pride, like I'm a bad dude, I can figure things out, I can make it happen. It's their pride in their ego that shield them from being able to recognize me, to change them. And that was what it was for me as well.

00:17:52:09 - 00:18:10:00
Itamar Marani
I see that in myself. I was like, How can I just push harder for saying I can? How can I push harder? For me, it's easier to push harder than it is to say, I did something stupid here and I need to change. I can say that, but what's my natural level is like, you know what? How can I just push harder?

00:18:10:01 - 00:18:31:09
Itamar Marani
And I think a lot of us also that come from, let's call a more physical background, gym, jiu jitsu, whatever it may be, we learned we become really, really good at pushing harder because that actually gives a lot of results there. And sometimes we default to that when it's not the right thing to do. And that's why for me, having this kind of framework where first off, if something's not going according to the trajectory, stop and ask yourself, is there an embarrassment?

00:18:31:09 - 00:18:55:02
Itamar Marani
You don't just say, okay, let's push harder with this, let's push it through to completion. Say, well, first off, are we being even smart about this? Are we strategically being correct? Are we being effective, if not on the fact that our strategy is a bit embarrassing and we need to fine tune that so we can actually be much more effective with the effort that we're going to make sense?

00:18:55:04 - 00:19:10:04
Itamar Marani
So that was the first thing, the first part of that system that embarrassed and I own that was, okay, this feels embarrassing. And I told you guys literally the next week when we did this workshop with the guys, I recognized about myself, like, we have an issue here. Okay, so then once you're embarrassed, how do you make sure you don't keep repeating the same mistakes?

00:19:10:04 - 00:19:32:13
Itamar Marani
And either you have blind spots or like, what happened to me that I ignored certain things that I saw because I had emotional costs that I put on this project. And for that, Tal represented this concept called the set. So basically the way you create this systematic inquiry of understanding reality for what it actually is, not what you want it to be, and to also make sure that you see all the angles of it that you're not used to looking for.

00:19:32:15 - 00:20:03:10
Itamar Marani
Is this concept called a set where you basically figure out what are all the components of reality that caused your venture to be more successful or less successful. And from that you can build a strategy. And the components of the set were as follows The stakeholders first are the core. The parties involved in the podcast, me, the host, you the co-host, the listeners, the production team, all that jazz, then the connections, how do they tie to each other, How do they all work together?

00:20:03:12 - 00:20:21:22
Itamar Marani
Then the motivations which I get back to what are the interests of each person? What will make them happy? What are their goals then? The challenges? What are the challenges they present to me? Are my goals opportunities where the points of leverage exploit and where the opportunities they present to me and my goals and then the limitations. What constraints are you operating?

00:20:22:00 - 00:20:37:16
Itamar Marani
And when we went through all this, when I looked at the motivations, I was like, Oh, this is where I really messed up because I put my emotional want, I want my motivation, I want to own a term because I thought if I play this long term game of owning a term in a couple of years, phenomenal results.

00:20:37:16 - 00:20:55:05
Itamar Marani
I'm going to be like Tim Ferriss that's going to probably have like an emotional want there. I thought about my motivation. I didn't think about the motivations of the listeners, potential listeners. They don't care about emotional four two, they just care about being elite performers and achieving all they want to achieve in their lives, in their businesses and so on.

00:20:55:06 - 00:21:07:00
Itamar Marani
And that framework are really forcing you to go step by step and seeing what you're possibly missing out on. For me, that was really, really big because that commitment, I see reality.

00:21:07:01 - 00:21:24:00
Alexander De Fina
That does that come to you quite naturally as you started going through that process, identifying the stakeholders, the connections, the motivations, limitations, etc.. Was that something as you start to go through that process immediately, you recognize that there was a motivation that you had that wasn't shared by other stakeholders?

00:21:24:02 - 00:21:43:00
Itamar Marani
Yeah. Again, what was also interesting to me that when we later when I went over it with the whole group, I think 90% of the guys that was their blind spot. They didn't look at the motivations of the other people involved in this. I think you were the only one that had something else to look at, but for pretty much everybody else, that was the main thing.

00:21:43:02 - 00:21:58:18
Itamar Marani
And it makes sense. Like we're all we're all intrinsically out for ourselves. Like we can say we want to make an impact and all that, but we're human beings, We're creatures, we're animals at a very primal level. We want to look out for our well-being. So naturally, if we're not aware of it, we're just going to look at what our motivations are.

00:21:58:19 - 00:22:18:11
Itamar Marani
But that's not actually what creates a big win all around, like with the people that you want on your side, whatever it may be. And that was a really interesting thing that next time, like my very let's call it compact mental model around this is that whenever I start a new venture, I need to be hyper aware to look at other people's motivations in their while.

00:22:18:13 - 00:22:34:19
Itamar Marani
It's not about what I want to get out of this or what I would hope or what I would like. And again, it's very obvious. Like I coach people on this all the time and I can see them from the side like, Dude, you're not looking at your employees motivation, you're not looking at this other person's, this other companies motivation, whatever it may be.

00:22:34:21 - 00:22:41:19
Itamar Marani
And I didn't see it in myself, but you got to that. We all have our blind spots and this is just a great tool to make sure that we don't stumble.

00:22:41:21 - 00:23:03:10
Alexander De Fina
It's interesting you use the word blind spot as well rather than the word bias, because it sounds as though once you made that realization, there wasn't a whole lot of internal resistance against the idea that maybe a change is required as a bias might be. Everyone else is wrong. This is the best name ever. They don't see it yet.

00:23:03:12 - 00:23:21:17
Itamar Marani
And I think that's such an interesting point. I think, though, all the emotional resistance went away. The moment I acknowledge that if we haven't embraced the moment, I acknowledge that, okay, I'm embarrassed by reality, embarrassed me, so to speak, in this sharing that I'm not an embarrassment, I'm not a failure. I'm a good human being and my self-worth, all that.

00:23:21:19 - 00:23:46:03
Itamar Marani
But just in this specific case, reality embarrassed me and I can own that and be okay emotionally. Like now I took that hit. Okay, I've made peace with that. Now I can move on. And I think that's the real power of Without embarrassment stage. There's. Okay, wait a minute. Take that emotional hit on that. Now that you accepted that, you're not trying to avoid saying, I'm not really embarrassed because maybe this because maybe we can figure that out.

00:23:46:05 - 00:24:05:19
Itamar Marani
I can work harder, I can tweak this, maybe a little bit of that. But if you say no, no, I fully acknowledge that this feels a bit stupid. Like I personally I'm an expert in performance and mindset and I missed out on this. That feels foolish. There's no way around it. I did something that is embarrassing relative to like where I should, what I should be able to execute on.

00:24:05:21 - 00:24:16:00
Itamar Marani
I did something embarrassed the moment I can own that and make peace with that and I can. So then from there I just saw opportunities. Does that make sense?

00:24:16:02 - 00:24:33:13
Alexander De Fina
So it makes sense, and I think it reinforces how important it is to have tools and processes like this up your sleeve, because even you know well that your mindset expert can fall victim to our own blindspots, which shows you just how pervasive it is.

00:24:33:15 - 00:24:51:21
Itamar Marani
Yeah, it's the power of these tools. It's like, I think this is stuff that I would do intuitively for a lot of my clients before this, but now getting that kind of framework and having that tool to run myself and other people from it just helps us make sure there's no leakage that we catch everything that needs to be caught.

00:24:51:23 - 00:25:22:12
Itamar Marani
Makes sense. Yeah, makes sense. So that was actually going to be the common mistake that I wanted to talk about. A common mistake is not acknowledging embarrassment when it happens. The reality is that we always try to protect our egos. It's a natural thing. We try to protect our egos, our sense of self. And this whole term of like, if I do one thing that's embarrassing, I should feel embarrassed about myself as an entrepreneur, as a person, as a husband, as a wife, whatever it may be.

00:25:22:14 - 00:25:44:23
Itamar Marani
And I think a big part of it is the framework. What allow me to acknowledge that embarrassment so quick. I'm proud of myself to be the kind of person that moves forward like we're at episode I think 40 something now, almost 50. And I wouldn't have gone into this insight if I were just try to stay in the background to figure this out, You know, like the whole like, how do I get from Barcelona to Rome before stepping a step foot forward?

00:25:45:01 - 00:26:00:12
Itamar Marani
Because I got a better frame of how I view myself and what I take pride in. And I just like having a stumble. But I think that some of are really good because that means I'm moving forward. I'm giving myself the opportunity to have a lot of flaws in my thought process, my business model exposed. I can be a piece saying I got embarrassed.

00:26:00:12 - 00:26:18:14
Itamar Marani
Here is what I'm supposed to be searching out for is like when I'm just on the map, it's like I want people to expose the holes in my game. So let me roll with the best people and I mean, move forward as fast as possible. And I think the most common mistake is that people don't acknowledge when they feel a bit embarrassed about something, when something isn't working.

00:26:18:14 - 00:26:40:09
Itamar Marani
The planet isn't working either, because they just don't want to admit it because it's one try to work out, work it, so to speak, technical flaw in their strategy. They want to we want to work really, really hard in a way that's not effective, it's not efficient, or because they're afraid to admit it, period. Because they think if they're embarrassed in one way, they should feel like an embarrassed.

00:26:40:11 - 00:26:42:16
Itamar Marani
Mm hmm.

00:26:42:18 - 00:26:45:08
Itamar Marani
Any thoughts on that?

00:26:45:10 - 00:27:06:12
Alexander De Fina
I'm hearing you unpack. It makes me just really think about those two words and how powerful they are. In my understanding, bias and blind spot. I was thinking about driving a car. If I've set my side mirrors incorrectly, it's possible I have a blind spot and I can't see the car, so maybe I do a shoulder glance. There's a car that goes.

00:27:06:13 - 00:27:22:12
Alexander De Fina
So that was a blind spot. I'm not going to merge into that lane because of the blind spot which I've been aware of. But if I can now see the car so the blind spot is no longer blind and I still choose to kind of look close my eyes and cross my fingers and say there is no car, there is no colors in the car.

00:27:22:14 - 00:27:42:18
Alexander De Fina
And I merge directly into the car. That would be bias or denial or just disconnection from reality. Yes. And so I think that what you what you had, it was the blind spot, which we all have. That's why it's called a blind spot. And then the second you had a process or tool to recognize it, it was kind of like adjusting the mirrors.

00:27:42:18 - 00:28:04:03
Alexander De Fina
It was a closet. Okay, now I can I can change my strategy. But if you if you didn't change your strategy, just so you know, there is no car. There is no car. There is no car that would be biased, which might be harder to to undo because now we need to work out why you're clinging to a belief which is not connected to reality.

00:28:04:05 - 00:28:21:12
Itamar Marani
Yeah, I'll try to give a similar analogy to that and a more visual one. I don't usually do, so please stick with me. So all right, we've also all heard this story of somebody going the wrong direction and instead of recognize, okay, I missed the turn with other people in the car telling them like, dude, you missed a turn.

00:28:21:12 - 00:28:37:23
Itamar Marani
They keep going out of you. We all have heard this example, right? So I think to kind of say what you want to let's say we have our desire. Our desire is like we're in Barcelona or not. We want to get you wrong. So all I'm fixated on is like how to get to. I look at Rome now.

00:28:37:23 - 00:28:56:06
Itamar Marani
What I don't recognize is that there's a mountain range right in front of and I mean, take a right in order to be around like safe passage, whatever it may be. And that's something that I'm less am. I could actually see reality for what it is I'm so blinded by my wants that I will drive into the mountain.

00:28:56:08 - 00:29:22:08
Itamar Marani
Now what can happen is that somebody will tell me, Hey, man, this is what's going on. This is the reality of life. You're going the wrong way. You need to you trying to take that like turn against you, go around the mountains, and I can have that vision of reality all on my blind side. But if my ego is still so strong because of my wants, or because my fear to acknowledge that I was wrong in one way, because I need to protect my ego, I might drive into the mountain.

00:29:22:10 - 00:29:40:20
Itamar Marani
However, if I can either let go of my ego by recognizing, you know, this is not an issue that defines me, the fact that I messed up here. So let me just U-turn and go the right way or I can recognize anything or everybody's motivation here to not just die and run to the mountain. I can look at it from that perspective.

00:29:40:22 - 00:30:02:11
Itamar Marani
It's really powerful. And I think the set, the first I like acknowledging the embarrassment. It gives you the opportunity, see reality for what it is, not just get blinded by your oneness. Okay. Wow. There's a mountain here that I hadn't taken into account. Something you. I haven't taken into account. Whether it's other stakeholders, their motivations, whether it's connections, how they work together, the limitations we're operating in turn, opportunities, whatever it may be.

00:30:02:13 - 00:30:21:23
Itamar Marani
But then also, again, like being able to say I am a bigger person than this one thing, it allows you say, okay, this feels embarrassing, but this is the right thing to do. And I take pride in actually being the kind of person that once they say that something they're doing is flawed, they don't stick onto it. They can move beyond that.

00:30:22:01 - 00:30:29:20
Itamar Marani
And I think if you have those kind of components together, that's when you can find the most effective path to get to where you want to go, go to.

00:30:29:22 - 00:30:37:15
Alexander De Fina
So would you say in that situation, using one of your own phrases, you know, when you aim for the trophy, you miss a target?

00:30:37:17 - 00:30:39:13
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

00:30:39:15 - 00:30:42:15
Alexander De Fina
In hindsight, was it designer.

00:30:42:18 - 00:30:44:04
Itamar Marani
Shoes? I didn't read that phrase.

00:30:44:06 - 00:31:05:21
Alexander De Fina
Okay. Yeah, it was. It was it that you were focused on on coining a term of sort of owning a term and that created a gap where you weren't focused on the sort of metrics of, of, of growth and thinking like, how do I actually make this easy for my audience to understand what this is and consume information?

00:31:05:23 - 00:31:11:04
Alexander De Fina
It's more important that I own a term other than I move the needle on engagement metrics.

00:31:11:06 - 00:31:31:08
Itamar Marani
Yeah, okay. Absolutely. And I think when you think about it from a very pragmatic layer, what's more important for a company to own the term or to actually grow? You know that, yes, owning a term can make you grow. But I was blinded by it. I didn't think, okay, it's actually serving growth or not. I just want this thing.

00:31:31:10 - 00:31:37:12
Itamar Marani
That would be really cool if I had this thing. And that's just it doesn't work. Yeah.

00:31:37:14 - 00:31:41:02
Alexander De Fina
I've definitely made that mistake in business on more than one occasion.

00:31:41:04 - 00:31:49:23
Itamar Marani
Where have you made that? Where do you think this is? Like a big example where you can look back and say, this is kind of the same, same issue, but in a different way?

00:31:50:01 - 00:32:27:06
Alexander De Fina
So many things, whether it's actually the business model, whether it's a business brand, I think it's the innovator's dilemma. We've become the artists for them more than we want to. And now that's where the emotions come in, our desire to do something different and better. And so it's like if I came up with a new company doing X, Y, Z, I could come with like a very ethereal, abstract name because I'm projecting my sort of emotions or ego into the future and thinking it'd be great when this this thing that's very abstract right now is a household name that by default of me making it so abstract, I might fail to get one first hundred

00:32:27:06 - 00:32:34:20
Alexander De Fina
people to pay attention like I make it so abstract and so different that is completely foreign and alien to anyone who actually could pay attention.

00:32:34:22 - 00:32:41:14
Itamar Marani
Do you think there's some part of me that also, like I would feel really cool about myself if I can create something that's really abstract.

00:32:41:16 - 00:32:44:05
Alexander De Fina
400%.

00:32:44:07 - 00:32:56:22
Itamar Marani
That's what I felt to me when I heard you talk that I think a big part of is like, Oh, I want to feel cool about myself, that I created this new term or whatever. I mean, yeah, is that all like or business saying, Don't be cute, stop trying to be cute. Just do what works.

00:32:57:00 - 00:33:08:21
Alexander De Fina
I do with Google Maps. I'm like, That's that's cute. Google let me wanted to find a shorter path. It turns out it goes right every time.

00:33:08:23 - 00:33:30:18
Itamar Marani
Then I think that's a big lesson like we got to recognize that we always want to find a sense of satisfaction in ourselves or feel good about ourselves, but that desire blinds us to reality, and that's where we can really hurt our results. If all you want to do is like be an artist, be a broken artist, but you can feel good about yourself in that way.

00:33:30:20 - 00:33:52:23
Itamar Marani
Great. If you're looking for actual results, you got to recognize that the voice that you probably need to learn to ignore. If you're saying I would tell somebody else should do this thing and it matches, great. But if it doesn't, the advice that you would give to somebody else is probably more effective than what you want to do is your wants are not your logical thoughts.

00:33:53:00 - 00:33:57:07
Itamar Marani
There's a different things. I think that's what to watch out for.

00:33:57:09 - 00:34:18:22
Alexander De Fina
Go for or to ask. Do you think that there's a dimension also behind that? This might be like layers of subconscious that if when we start getting that sense on things, do you think there's any merit in the idea that maybe it's also a defense mechanism? So if it doesn't work out, it's like, yeah, well look, in hindsight I did make it really difficult to understand and really abstract it.

00:34:18:22 - 00:34:34:19
Alexander De Fina
You know, if I just made it really simple, if I had a close monitoring business, I said, I wash your clothes. Dot com is easier than calling it some sort of puritan name, which might be really hard to understand what I actually do. Could it be a defense mechanism?

00:34:34:22 - 00:34:51:04
Itamar Marani
It definitely could be like, that's not the angle where it came from, from me. But it doesn't mean that it won't be for somebody else. It's like a lot of it could be a way for somebody to avoid having to really put themselves out there saying like, Oh, if it's no one's really going to hear about it in some way.

00:34:51:04 - 00:35:15:12
Itamar Marani
And they self sabotaging myself that way, then nobody can really judge if the product behind the name or whatever it would be is really good enough. You could be aware like people I see this in hiring people are like, I'm really, really terrified to give up control. So instead of me really clarifying the role that I need on this hire somebody and then it's probably not going to work out anyway, and I'll be able to see how that didn't work out.

00:35:15:12 - 00:35:26:09
Itamar Marani
For all these don't work out. I think there's nothing like it's a great point. It's not where it came from for me, but definitely I can't see it not exist for something.

00:35:26:11 - 00:35:53:10
Alexander De Fina
I see happening in business models where people come up with very abstract business models. It's like a, it's like a a a hodgepodge. It's like a coffee shop. And clothing retailer, plus art gallery plus doggy day care. And they call it the very abstract name. And I wonder, not only apart from the brand and our ego emotional wants to sort of revolutionize this, you know, weird kind of concept store.

00:35:53:12 - 00:36:20:12
Alexander De Fina
Maybe it's also because the individual know that they're not a domain expert in any of those things. They're not a domain expert in running a highly profitable, efficient coffee shop or art gallery or anything else. So it's kind of easy to sort of bundle them all in together, wrap it up in something, some weird sort of wrapping, and then it might be a sort of a value or that we use to recognize that actually we don't have competency here.

00:36:20:14 - 00:36:40:15
Itamar Marani
I'll say this and this is really interesting because I think regardless if that's true or not, whatever it may be, it's irrelevant if you use this process because if somebody would have used a set where they had to actually break down the stakeholders, how they connect to each other and what their motivations and limitations are, that that process would have showed them this is a bad idea.

00:36:40:17 - 00:36:42:21
Itamar Marani
It would have forced them to look reality in the face.

00:36:42:23 - 00:36:43:23
Alexander De Fina
Great point.

00:36:44:00 - 00:37:05:06
Itamar Marani
And I think that's what was so beautiful about just having that kind of framework that it doesn't allow you to hide from reality because of whatever your wants are. And again, I think the kind of want to wrap this up, I think it's a powerful point to kind of drop off the set as a really powerful tool, but you cannot access the tool if you're not willing to own that unique.

00:37:05:07 - 00:37:24:13
Itamar Marani
If you're not willing to own that embarrassed. I know it sounds weird, but having these kind of weird out of everyday, normal talk terms allows you to get out of your everyday, normal thinking. It's annoying and embarrassing. The quicker you can avoid trying out work and an effective strategy due to stubbornness or ego or thick headedness or whatever it may be.

00:37:24:15 - 00:37:49:02
Itamar Marani
And you can say this isn't working. The way I would have expected it to, the way it needs to work in order to get to my targets. Then you can move on to a more effective strategy faster by breaking down the set and recognizing where were the flaws in way I came up with this trap for me was I didn't even take into account the motivations of the people that could be potential listeners, which is why it's wild, it's ridiculous, but it happens.

00:37:49:04 - 00:38:03:12
Itamar Marani
I think the sooner okay, this is wild. This was really foolish of me, but I take pride in being the kind of person that can own that move forward. I know that's going to serve me really, really well. Think I don't care about this momentary embarrassment because I know I'm doing the right things to get myself to a great place.

00:38:03:12 - 00:38:05:18
Alexander De Fina
And yeah.

00:38:05:20 - 00:38:14:19
Itamar Marani
And that's what I would like people to walk away with anything I see or have something about to come out.

00:38:14:21 - 00:38:43:07
Alexander De Fina
I just so from my understanding podcast wasn't growing at the right. What you expected or desired. You're going through this process. The embarrassment was recognizing that your motivations to coin a term was different to the motivations of other stakeholders, whether that audience co-host, editors, etc. That's kind of like the epiphany moment, which explains why part of the disconnect between expectations reality was the growth.

00:38:43:09 - 00:38:57:11
Alexander De Fina
By going for that set, how now do you re re strategize after going through that? So I guess my next question is where to next?

00:38:57:13 - 00:38:59:09
Itamar Marani
So it's the podcast.

00:38:59:11 - 00:39:14:10
Alexander De Fina
Oh yeah, just kind of like that. You've learned that that lesson in terms of the disconnect between your desires and what the market was receiving, how do you recalibrate that either from a branding exercise or what's, what's next? Steps?

00:39:14:15 - 00:39:33:23
Itamar Marani
The simple thing that I did, I went out to the people that are my ideal clients, people that are in the not just the arena, but the elite program. These are the ideal clients. What are your motivations? Instead of me assuming, instead of me hoping to understand or be like, What did you guys want out of this? And finding What's the common thread there?

00:39:33:23 - 00:39:51:11
Itamar Marani
Ask them, What would you feel comfortable telling a friend of yours? Like, Dude, you need to listen to this podcast. And I sound like I'd be able to say like, Oh, it's like, it's really good, but it just kind of sounds kind of weird, but if you get into it, it's really good. What would now in there? Just asking the people straight up again, not having an ego about me, guys, I have my assumptions.

00:39:51:11 - 00:40:09:08
Itamar Marani
My assumptions obviously been proven very wrong. What do you guys specifically want? Tell me and then synthesize that together. And that's how we came up with this Elite Performance podcast. That's all they want to be really. Performers. It means something different. Everybody. It's not 100% congruent. We might change it again as we learn and grow, but for right now it's a much bigger improvement.

00:40:09:08 - 00:40:25:00
Itamar Marani
It takes into account the biggest blindspot that we didn't take into account last time was the motivations of the ideal people we want to attract to this podcast and give them the tools that could help them grow and succeed become better performance in the life business. All that. But I do want to say once.

00:40:25:02 - 00:40:25:17
Alexander De Fina
That, listen, I think.

00:40:25:17 - 00:40:46:21
Itamar Marani
People I think we we we missed a crucial step. None of this is possible if you don't have the courage to set a target, people to say, oh, I'll just keep doing things. And like it'll somehow grow. You don't give yourself the opportunity to see are you falling behind your expectations in your targets, in your time. I know it's very common.

00:40:46:21 - 00:41:03:12
Itamar Marani
It was like, Oh, I don't want to set a target because that's too intimidating and others get going and I'll do and I learn across the way. Doing that doesn't give you the opportunity to say, Is something here not working according to expectation or are we on pace. So I think the first thing is you have to set a target.

00:41:03:13 - 00:41:18:10
Itamar Marani
So you always have you can debrief anything if you've succeeded or not. If there was an actual target to say the benchmark is a successful or not, I think first you have to set that target and then you can see if you're embarrassed that you're not getting along the way or you are. I just wanted to have that.

00:41:18:10 - 00:41:19:04
Itamar Marani
But what did you have to say?

00:41:19:06 - 00:41:47:23
Alexander De Fina
I totally agree. I think this highlights how powerful this process is because it's it's like a concentric loop. You have gone through the embarrassment, gone through the set, the sort of the analysis phase and what the next step is in terms of branding. You're a much more dynamic and flexible with it. It realigned yourself to how do I make this thing work?

00:41:47:23 - 00:42:10:13
Alexander De Fina
But the the visual analogy that was making sense to me because I think this is such a such a common issue for most entrepreneurs is that it wasn't an issue with the product. You've got plenty of clients who rave about your coaching. It was an issue with a branding exercise that might have gone you had a degree left or right, unnecessarily.

00:42:10:15 - 00:42:27:23
Alexander De Fina
So the analogy might be you've got a restaurant full of happy customers that come here all the time and you're you're getting fancy with the name or the sort of the facade of the restaurant, which doesn't take away from the dining experience for those customers. And you could keep thinking about marketing efforts and branding and all the rest.

00:42:28:01 - 00:42:46:06
Alexander De Fina
You could just simply just turn around and go with your customers and say, Hey, why do you come here? Yeah. So I think that that embarrassment cycle gets shortened each time that you deploy this process because it gets easier to recognize. Of course, you need to have those targets. It's easy to recognize, you know, how do I make this more appealing to more diners?

00:42:46:10 - 00:42:54:18
Alexander De Fina
Why you spoke and saw it. Just speak to the people who, you know, like and trust you and find out what this means to them.

00:42:54:20 - 00:43:13:16
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And again, to put that into the context of the set, it's the stakeholders. These could also be like if you're in a different kind of business, talk to your suppliers. Like what are your motivations? How can we make this a bigger win win for us? How can I understand your company? And that's why I think having this kind of process we actually have to walk yourself down through all this stuff is so effective.

00:43:13:18 - 00:43:35:19
Itamar Marani
Now, the really cool thing is that I didn't tell you this because when we only got this yesterday, one of the guys in the lead actually created GP2 about how when you tell it your business model and all that kind of thing, you took all the lessons from Officer General program and it spits out like the stakeholders, their connections, their interests, the general things you obviously it's like it's so I that you have to edit.

00:43:35:21 - 00:43:49:15
Itamar Marani
But interesting a long part of the way. Yeah. So first off, we're going to share that in the links below. So if you want to do that for your business, it's pretty wild. You just go into the links below, you'll find that you can get access to it immediately. It's free, all that kind of jazz to help you out.

00:43:49:15 - 00:44:13:04
Itamar Marani
Long That's number one. And number two, I think a really good and powerful question to ask yourself is where you perhaps not taking a wider view or where do you have certain blind spots because you really want something to work again, maybe that employee, maybe it's a product, maybe like us, it's a pot, whatever it may be, and you really want something emotionally, you're probably not thinking logically.

00:44:13:06 - 00:44:36:11
Itamar Marani
And if you have clear targets, then you can say, Wait, this thing that I want, it's not on the right track. It's not. And I don't I shouldn't just try to work harder to make an ineffective strategy work. That's not what's going to happen. If you see that in yourself. And you can have the courage, obviously, to own the fact that you made a mistake, it feels a bit embarrassing.

00:44:36:12 - 00:45:02:12
Itamar Marani
But you can handle that. And it's good because you keep exposing yourself and learning and then go backwards, understand what's actually going on and use kind of framework, I think, to see massive success. So again, if you feel that you have something you really want to work, but it's not like it's foolish to just try to work harder instead do something a bit smarter, more strategic, more effective, go back to the drawing board on your mistakes and see what went wrong there.

00:45:02:12 - 00:45:08:15
Itamar Marani
You have a more effective strategy and you see better results with hopefully a lot less effort.

00:45:08:17 - 00:45:10:08
Alexander De Fina
Or so.

00:45:10:10 - 00:45:22:01
Itamar Marani
I think. On that note, we will wrap it up for today. Again, guys, if you want that chat, thinking about understanding the site and breaking for you, you can find the links below. Aside from that, have a great rest of your week.