Episode 50 AMA! | Elite Performance Podcast #50

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:19:13
Itamar Marani
Welcome to episode 50 of the podcast. So for this special occasion, we're doing an AMA and Alex and I covered such topics as what creates toxic masculinity as opposed to actually being aligned with your environment and why that happens. We cover what leads some people to success and what actually stops most people from achieving what they think they actually want.

00:00:19:15 - 00:00:40:00
Itamar Marani
We covered what are some of my favorite books, some of my mentors and what they taught me, as well as some of the biggest epiphanies I've had through coaching and how to help others, and also help myself. We had a lot of questions. It's a longer podcast than usual, but there's a lot of gold in it. Before we get in, I want to just put aside two big lessons I had on why I think we got to episode number 50.

00:00:40:01 - 00:00:59:04
Itamar Marani
One is the cadence in which we actually put out episodes. So we only put out an episode once every two weeks, which means that this is sustainable. It's not something that's always top of mind after doing one new one each week. And because of that sustainable pace, we've been able to get here Now with that also people always ask me, Oh, you've been doing this for a while, so you don't feel trusted around it.

00:00:59:06 - 00:01:16:21
Itamar Marani
And I want to first I'll say, that's not true. Every time we put out an episode, I still feel the pressure to perform and do things to a certain standard. And I think a big part of why I've been able to keep doing this, because I just accept that pressure is going to be there. I don't think it's anything wrong if I feel a certain pressure or a certain desire to do this, or what does it mean?

00:01:16:23 - 00:01:35:18
Itamar Marani
Just accept it's part of the game. You put out content, people are going to say negative things. Sometimes you're going to feel pressure to do your best and it's going to be a little bit overwhelming at times. That's perfectly fine, and I think those two main things, the cadence and that acceptance, this is going to be a challenging process to put out a lot of podcasts and do things well is why this hasn't actually been overwhelming.

00:01:35:20 - 00:01:42:03
Itamar Marani
It has been part of the game that I've been happy to play, and I appreciate all you guys for being with us until episode 50 so far.

00:01:42:05 - 00:02:07:01
Alexander De Fina
All right. So the first question is from James and Jason's question is, Emma, I love your take on masculine versus feminine thinking and decision making in the modern world and how this is playing out in our relationships and the lives of our kids. In the last year, I've been more in tune with women complaining about weak male statements like There are no men anymore.

00:02:07:03 - 00:02:17:01
Alexander De Fina
Yet many men complain that it's hard to be their true self worried about being canceled for toxic, toxic masculinity. What's your thoughts on that?

00:02:17:03 - 00:02:35:00
Itamar Marani
Okay. So first off, kind of how I'm going to answer a lot of these questions. One of the actors is going to go into a later question that I saw that somebody asked, Who are my exemplars? So one of the biggest lessons that I learned in jujitsu was nothing at all about jujitsu. My coach in Brazil is a nine time world champion who's a phenomenal, phenomenal teacher.

00:02:35:02 - 00:02:51:04
Itamar Marani
And I remember one time I asked him a question like, I keep getting stuck here, what do I do? And he's like, Oh, that's not the right question. The right question is, what did you three steps ago? And it was a very interesting example of somebody not accepting my question. He's like, there's a better question to be asked and I think you're not seeing.

00:02:51:06 - 00:02:58:10
Itamar Marani
So with other questions I would do today, I'm going to try to stand what's the real question behind it instead of just answering on a surface level? Some good.

00:02:58:12 - 00:03:00:07
Alexander De Fina
Sounds good.

00:03:00:09 - 00:03:19:12
Itamar Marani
So in the last year, I've been more in tune with women complaining about weak males. There are no men anymore. Yet many men complain that it's hard to be their true self worried about being canceled or toxic masculinity. Basically, if you're putting yourself in a position where you're required to act in a certain way that you don't want to act, you will be miserable.

00:03:19:14 - 00:03:38:06
Itamar Marani
Now, if you're in a certain construct, whether it's a space of work or whatever, and B, where you can't be your true self and you feel like you have to shield up and act in the way they want you to act, guess you're not going to be happy. And if you're not going to be happy and everyone can tell you're miserable, that's probably not very attractive to other guys around each other women.

00:03:38:06 - 00:04:00:21
Itamar Marani
And that's what it is. And I think a lot of it is recognizing you can still craft out your own space in the world. It's like, yes, there is this big flow of everybody needs to soften up and let's empower everybody for the sake of empowerment. Sometimes like what happened. We saw it with Harvard just a couple of months ago with the president, all that kind of stuff.

00:04:00:23 - 00:04:24:00
Itamar Marani
I think once people step up into what they want in the way they want to be a strong man, whatever they want to call it, it will attract the right tribe. Some people will absolutely be mad at you, will think you're a jerk, whatever it may be. But if you give yourself the permission to do what you think is the right thing and again, with integrity, with everything until long, that you'll attract the right tribe.

00:04:24:02 - 00:04:39:22
Itamar Marani
And that's something that I genuinely believe in. I think most people that are thinking like, Oh, I'm just stuck. I'm trapped so I can be myself and I have to be more feminine or whatever. Maybe you can if you want to stay in that environment. However, if you recognize that you can find a new environment, you can change your behaviors.

00:04:40:00 - 00:04:41:04
Itamar Marani
That makes sense.

00:04:41:06 - 00:05:16:20
Alexander De Fina
That it makes sense. So your your thoughts on this is that people are more likely to be sensitive to the accusation of being to masculine or having sort of toxic masculinity. If they're in a role where there's some degree of inauthenticity so that they're putting on a facade which isn't their true self, and therefore they're more sensitive to people's people statements.

00:05:16:22 - 00:05:39:15
Itamar Marani
I think it's a fit issue. So let's put it this way. If you go to hardcore, I'm a medium. No one's going to be like, Dude, you're being too masculine here. This is not okay behavior. And that's the bottom line. If you're in a position where it's not a fit, where the that environment is trying to get you to act in a certain way that you don't align with, you can get out of that environment if you want to fight over.

00:05:39:15 - 00:06:01:00
Itamar Marani
Well, this is right, this is wrong, whatever it may be. Okay, you can have that. I think the more pragmatic thing to do is to find words that are right fit. For example, like I'm a part of a couple entrepreneur communities. One of them, I was at a conference at a big one a couple weeks ago. In 90% of the people attending there were males of that, let's call it that organization.

00:06:01:02 - 00:06:23:14
Itamar Marani
10% were female. About 80% of the speakers were female. So what that means is that they were probably more focused on inclusion of women than just saying who are the best possible speakers for this group? Now, I'm not going to say whether that's the right long term vision, wrong long term vision. It just that's what it is. And I was like, you know what?

00:06:23:16 - 00:06:42:15
Itamar Marani
For me right now, that is not my focus. I would rather just get the best stuff from the people with the most merit. And that's probably not what happened here. There was probably another agenda that was higher on their totem pole, which again, fine for them, it's just not a fit for me. And I think a lot of the guys who say like, oh, I feel like I'm being forced into this trap.

00:06:42:15 - 00:06:56:11
Itamar Marani
I can't be myself. So I have to grow a beard to show that I'm a man. It's like, what if you just get out of that system that you don't like? And that's challenging because you might have to learn a new skill set. You might have to leave certain things behind that are kind of the devil that you know are more convenient.

00:06:56:13 - 00:07:08:06
Itamar Marani
But if you don't want to be part of that system, recognize you can get out of it. It's going to require more effort than you just complaining about whether it's not allowing you to be a man or whatever it may be.

00:07:08:08 - 00:07:27:01
Alexander De Fina
Like what? Sorry about. I was going to ask how how would we redefine that question? Like, what's the bigger question behind that is the question maybe why? Why we sensitive to or why are we even concerned about being labeled as being toxic or too masculine?

00:07:27:03 - 00:07:46:05
Itamar Marani
It's what to do if I feel repressed, so the hell you can accept it, change it or leave it. Those are using your three options. If you want to accept it, you're okay. We should just be different. I should be less masculine, whatever that means to you. If you want to fight and change it also cool. Or if you want to leave it.

00:07:46:07 - 00:08:17:10
Itamar Marani
And honestly, usually leaving the situation if it's possible is easier. So like, for example, if you don't want to raise your kids right now in the hotbed of all this PC stuff that's hot in Northern California, then leave Northern California. Like when I remember I was at a conference about three years ago and I spoke there. It was a tech crowd and I kept talking to people before my talk and all that, and people kept on me about their partners and all this.

00:08:17:10 - 00:08:32:12
Itamar Marani
And I was like, Oh, my wife and I. And it was interesting for a while I didn't understand what everybody meant. Then I was like, Oh, I'm not allowed to say. My wife, because that's not inclusive in this crowd. Yeah, well, listen, Alex's eyes just popped out because that's also what I was like, Is this what's going on here?

00:08:32:12 - 00:09:03:16
Itamar Marani
Is everyone telling me because I'd understand if it was your business partner, their life partner. Whenever I would say my wife, somebody would say, Oh, my partner is to correct me, is a savage Middle Eastern and what I recognize there is that people were spending. What I noticed having lunch with people, the biggest priority people had was to show how politically correct they were more than to actually be effective in growing their businesses If that's what they want, great for them.

00:09:03:18 - 00:09:22:19
Itamar Marani
But it's not what I wanted and I was okay. I'm probably not going to be moving in San Francisco anytime soon. And I think that is the big part. Like, especially the person who asks has a lot of location independent. I don't personally. So to do those things, you have the option, You have the choice. And with your kids as well, you can move them in different places in the world.

00:09:22:21 - 00:09:55:10
Itamar Marani
I think the recognition that you can find your tribe, there are enough people. I think the way you think it's going to be easier than trying to change the world is getting frustrated by it again, like in the hardcore jujitsu gyms that I've trained up, I didn't see a lot of beards. I think usually it's the guys that are trying to prove something that like I have to grow a beard in order to seem masculine, like there's something else you can do is probably going to have a deeper impact than just growing a beard that they're lazy to shave.

00:09:55:12 - 00:10:26:08
Alexander De Fina
Shaved, lazy shave is interesting. So I've got a personal anecdote on this topic as I've spent the better part of the last ten years doing female specific fitness businesses, having all female teams or female clients. So we're talking about thousands of thousands of of customers, you know, and I was the figurehead of these companies. So obviously I'm not a woman.

00:10:26:10 - 00:11:11:18
Alexander De Fina
And in that body of people, only one time was I ever accused of something which would always relate to being toxic or too masculine. And it was from a person that was who was never a customer of my company, but I'd never met before. That was a a blogger and somewhat of a profile in that industry locally. It was trying to make a name for themselves and basically wrote a hit piece about why my businesses were obviously some hyper masculine compensation for the fact that I must secretly resent women.

00:11:11:20 - 00:11:37:05
Alexander De Fina
And obviously it hurt because there's a lot of blood, sweat and tears that goes into that business. And I've got a charity which operates to this day giving free fitness services to women. But I realized relatively quickly that this person has zero information about me because my zero attempts at actually trying to find out information about me had 100% confidence in conviction in their opinion about me.

00:11:37:07 - 00:12:19:07
Alexander De Fina
And actually what I didn't want to do was to have a, you know, either robust or authentic conversation with me to understand the branding or anything else. What they wanted to do was to attack the person who had high profile status, success in the industry as a way to get them to say things for themself. So I wonder if behind any of those fears of being accused of being a toxic or too masculine is not recognizing that the people who are usually the fastest to label someone as something are usually the same people who have zero information about the person.

00:12:19:09 - 00:12:43:03
Itamar Marani
I'll take it to a deeper level. I think it's a need for approval. So if you are fine with who you are and how you're conducting yourself, you're fine with your integrity, you're completely at peace with it. If someone says you're too toxic or whatever it may be, that shouldn't bother you. Like, honestly, I get, let's say, crap for directing most of our content towards a male audience.

00:12:43:05 - 00:13:04:02
Itamar Marani
Logically, like the vast majority of when we try to do it for everybody, the vast majority of our clientele were male. And we recognize that if we actually to send our messaging more towards males, we're going to get more of those clients that are the majority, so to speak. So we did that. Then people will come out and we've had people say like, this is not okay, this is not inclusive, this is not that.

00:13:04:04 - 00:13:19:01
Itamar Marani
Now, even if they're right, that it's not inclusive, I'm okay with what we're doing. And I think that's the ultimate thing. And so if someone calls me, I'm being a toxic male or whatever it may be, like me and my wife, we've showed us you guys in the alley. We have a tracker of how we do it and it relates to our sex life.

00:13:19:01 - 00:13:34:06
Itamar Marani
Even all these things that are in very soft and spiritual, like, I'm okay with that. You can call me whatever you want. I'm at peace with myself. And I think that's the biggest thing. Like if somebody calls you a name, whether it's toxic masculinity or whatever it may be, but you're in peace with your integrity, you should be okay with it.

00:13:34:12 - 00:13:37:18
Itamar Marani
It's their stuff. It shouldn't bother you.

00:13:37:19 - 00:13:59:13
Alexander De Fina
100%. I agree with that fully. And so that's why that didn't really affect me in that situation, even though it was in the media and everything else, because I was very comfortable with what I've done to assist women. I recognize this person hasn't done any of those things, and this is just simply a cheap shot. And because it never sensitivity, I gave it no oxygen.

00:13:59:15 - 00:14:18:02
Itamar Marani
No. Yeah. Yep. And I'll say this last thing for kids, because you asked about kids. So that's a challenging one because I know in a lot of schools right now, they try to teach things in a certain way. What's the what's the ethics of what's okay, what's not? And it's like, I think it's just arming the kids with an understanding.

00:14:18:02 - 00:14:35:12
Itamar Marani
And obviously I have a son as well. He's going to be going to school coming. The understanding that we have different thoughts in the House than everybody in the world usually does, that's okay for you to have different thoughts. And just because teacher says something, it doesn't mean that they're the ultimate authority in basically giving them agency over their own opinions.

00:14:35:15 - 00:14:51:06
Itamar Marani
I think this is what I think. This is why that's what your mother thinks. This is why the teacher that you have in class, she does not hold authority over you. She's a teacher in a class. And yes, you have to be respectful and all that. But she doesn't have the authority to tell you how to think just because she says something.

00:14:51:06 - 00:15:07:06
Itamar Marani
It's not, you know, the Ten Commandments from God, so to speak. But I think the thing is, a lot of parents, they're not aware that they can have these conversations with their kids. So they're just frustrated. I'm like, why is the teacher the person that I am, so to speak, entrusting my child to, especially if they send their kids to international schools without actually paying?

00:15:07:06 - 00:15:26:06
Itamar Marani
It's not a public school. And then they get frustrated because they recognize that that is what it is. And if you don't want to change it completely, redo the school structure or like build your own international school, just arm your kid in the ability to deal with it again, it's just an opportunity to arm them from an early age with a positive, critical thinking.

00:15:26:08 - 00:15:29:01
Alexander De Fina
That's a perfect response.

00:15:29:03 - 00:15:30:15
Itamar Marani
Cope cool on the next one.

00:15:30:18 - 00:15:56:01
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, let's move on. So Sam, Sam's question was, are there any words or phrases that you try to refrain from using and or recommend that others refrain more conceptually? You mentioned during the arena not to use self-deprecating humor to soften yourself. It's a passive way to communicate indirectly. This point stood out to me as I've made a point trying to refrain from it.

00:15:56:03 - 00:16:09:20
Alexander De Fina
Do you have any other words or phrases or concepts like self deprecating humor that you recommend staying away from which you think aren't useful and or detrimental? Yeah, so great question.

00:16:09:22 - 00:16:28:00
Itamar Marani
So first I'll bring up why the self-deprecating humor? I'm not a fan of putting myself down to make other people feel comfortable. I think that's the easy route, but I think I can actually stay strong and lift other people up as well. It's just a bit more challenging. So one of the rules we have in the arena, for example, is no self-deprecating humor.

00:16:28:01 - 00:16:44:22
Itamar Marani
Do not do that ever here. And I think for a lot of the guys, you're taught that if especially out of these high performers, you talk that away. Like if other people feel uncomfortable around you, then, okay, you need to do something about it by making them more comfortable. And the way you make them more comfortable is by making them less intimidated.

00:16:45:00 - 00:17:12:09
Itamar Marani
However, I have no problems in saying this is what I'm doing, this where I'm successful and if you want to do the same, here's a path to do that. I don't have to justify my success by saying, but I'm so bad at that though. But I took away. I barely got it. I make so many mistakes. It's like how it's easier for most people to, you know, that whole saying it's easier to tear down a town of buildings and to actually build the highest one, like, I'm not going to tear myself down.

00:17:12:11 - 00:17:36:07
Itamar Marani
And I don't think other people should either. So that's the key concept here, that I never want to tear myself down or shut off my ability to keep growing. And I think a lot of these things become self-fulfilling prophecy. The other terms I have is I really try to avoid as much as possible defining myself. I think that limits me.

00:17:36:09 - 00:18:01:02
Itamar Marani
So saying I am or I don't or I can't. I think one of the most powerful words in the English language is yet. Because if I say right now, okay, I can't do this, and that's it I put a ceiling on myself of defined that. That's my limitation. If I say I can't do this yet, we haven't learned how to do this yet.

00:18:01:04 - 00:18:30:16
Itamar Marani
It changes the whole perspective of it. Same thing with the I am the I am stuff. It drives me nuts. People say I'm an introvert or I'm not good at this. They're okay. If you're happy giving yourself that justification of why you can't do something and you're willing to have that justification, that makes you feel a bit more comfortable with it, limit your growth, okay, But it's going to limit your growth and you're just saying it to make yourself feel comfortable of why you're not being able to succeed because, oh, this is just it's not for people like me.

00:18:30:16 - 00:18:50:14
Itamar Marani
That's why it's not that I haven't tried yet. I haven't tried for the thousands time even though 999 times before that failed. I just it's not for me. Okay? So I don't have to have this pressure. Why am I not doing it? I can just put my hands up and say, Oh, okay. That's why. Because I'm just this I'm not a people person.

00:18:50:16 - 00:19:05:01
Itamar Marani
And that's what those things that I actively try to avoid and actively also try to make sure that the people that I interact with don't use that in their language, whether externally with other people or internally with themselves. Does that make sense?

00:19:05:03 - 00:19:34:12
Alexander De Fina
It does. So I understand this question from from two perspectives. One is self-deprecating humor. And the second one would be maybe we could call it absolute statements like I am fill in the blank, maybe to go in reverse order. Do you feel that the absolute statements, the main issue is that they're just not accurate? There's context missing. So it's a statement like I'm an introvert.

00:19:34:14 - 00:19:58:13
Itamar Marani
Seems just ineffective. Sorry to interrupt, but it's just ineffective. So what if you're an introvert, if you're naturally more of an introvert, if your goal is to accomplish something where you need to create a network or whatever it may be, it's not going to help you to say that you're an introvert. It's not effective. It's going to help you feel in the moment a bit more comfortable with why you can't do something and it'll help you justify your failures.

00:19:58:15 - 00:20:21:11
Itamar Marani
One of the biggest marketing tactics to justify people's failures, right? I think the seven pillars, so to speak, that Russell Brunson talked about and so if we give someone a tool to justify their failure. Nic Oh, I'm just an introvert and oh, okay, I can be at peace now. I guess that wasn't for me. Okay, I do think it's very ineffective, the context.

00:20:21:13 - 00:20:47:19
Alexander De Fina
So I'm sure I understand this better, the context being that this attribute or categorization seems to be holding them back from something which they have determined if they want. Because if I said, Hey, I'm a billionaire, I'm healthy, I'm happy, life is amazing and I'm also an introvert. I like living in a cage. What would be wrong or limiting nothing about that?

00:20:47:21 - 00:20:48:13
Alexander De Fina
Yeah.

00:20:48:15 - 00:20:54:06
Itamar Marani
Nothing. But if it stops you from getting what you want because you use this as a justification, that's when it's problem.

00:20:54:08 - 00:21:19:11
Alexander De Fina
Cool. I think that's where that's where the rubber meets the road point age. I understand it is is that the context for this is is this a constraint in you attaining what it is that you desire? Because if it's not great to have it, we're all we're all different. Yeah, but if it is, then it's a limiting, ineffective statement on yourself that can be other worked through overcome.

00:21:19:13 - 00:21:20:07
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, and.

00:21:20:11 - 00:21:35:03
Itamar Marani
It's a great point. It's a great question you brought up and I think the reason I was answering from that perspective is because that's usually what I hear it from somebody saying, I want to accomplish this thing, but I'm just not a people person. I am, but I'm just an introvert, but I just can't do these kind of things.

00:21:35:03 - 00:21:45:13
Itamar Marani
I'm not a tech person, whatever it may be. Yeah, I'm like, okay, cool. You can have that justification for yourself or you can have results. You can choose.

00:21:45:15 - 00:22:08:01
Alexander De Fina
That's really helpful. So that part, like the summary statements I am, I feel, etc., the context that is, if this summary statement is holding you back from attending the outcomes that you're looking for, that's where it needs to be sort of falsified and discarded. But if, if life's awesome, then you can goals and that's the way you are.

00:22:08:03 - 00:22:09:21
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, right.

00:22:09:23 - 00:22:11:18
Itamar Marani
Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:11:20 - 00:22:32:04
Alexander De Fina
And then with the self-deprecating humor, I've got to challenge you on this. Is there a situation where you would feel that it's not forgetting the exact words it used, but is there situations where you feel that self-deprecating humor could even be beneficial?

00:22:32:06 - 00:22:54:01
Itamar Marani
I have not experienced that I've not experienced. So let me put it this way. Of course it could be beneficial. Is it the best way to go about things, though? So basically there's a bridge between I'm trying to speak to someone and they feel intimidated. And if this level of intimidation is still there, I'm not going to be able to get a message across or help them in any which way they're just to intimidate.

00:22:54:03 - 00:23:11:19
Itamar Marani
Using self-deprecating humor might make them feel more at ease, and therefore they'll be able to accept some of the perspective that I offer something that could benefit them to cool It is helpful. However, I think these things are a lot more helpful because if I'm just trying to make them more at ease, that's the goal of self-deprecating humor.

00:23:11:22 - 00:23:31:15
Itamar Marani
I can do that in other ways. I can put my hand on the shoulder, show them some empathy and be like, Man, I know this stuff seemed intimidating. It seems above your head, but it's doable. It's all doable. And I think to be on the other side of having that kind of seen. I've done this at conferences. People come to me after a talk.

00:23:31:17 - 00:23:50:05
Itamar Marani
If instead of me trying to bring me down, I try to bring them up. It has a much longer impact on them and a much deeper impact. So if that's the goal of why using self-deprecating humor to make somebody feel more comfortable so that they can receive a certain message or whatever it may be, I think it's not.

00:23:50:05 - 00:23:56:01
Itamar Marani
It's it can work. I just don't think it's a very effective way to do things right.

00:23:56:03 - 00:24:14:04
Alexander De Fina
So if I look at someone like a Warren Buffett, because he stands out to me as someone who I wouldn't necessarily say humor, but it doesn't it doesn't flex ideas, his successes, you know, this isn't soundbites. It's more or less boiled down to, you know, yeah, I'm just an old man who likes playing, you know, let's play bridge in Omaha.

00:24:14:06 - 00:24:29:23
Alexander De Fina
Do you feel that that is is potentially beneficial to making his perspectives more digestible and relatable to the average person rather than talking about the the deep dive business analysis that they go into in terms of the stock picking.

00:24:30:01 - 00:24:54:19
Itamar Marani
I don't know about the bridge comments. For example, when he says, like we just try to do things that aren't stupid. I think that doesn't only make it relatable to the average person, but it makes it very clear. But I've never heard him or Charlie saying, Oh, we're just like stupid individuals. We're just a couple of dum dums who got lucky.

00:24:54:21 - 00:25:01:08
Itamar Marani
Got to think that they might have said that. I've never heard the stuff that I've studied from them.

00:25:01:10 - 00:25:37:07
Alexander De Fina
You're right. This this is actually been selfishly very helpful for me because I feel like I do use a lot of self-deprecating humor. Whether or not it's effective or not, Maybe. Maybe the value here is differentiating what is simplified information like how do I give high level information in an auto just format, which I think the world's greatest educators do without downplaying my capabilities now?

00:25:37:09 - 00:26:00:22
Itamar Marani
So can I take this to a whole different level of depth? Mm hmm. Let's go to David. So let's go deep. So I would say, what is my goal? Is my goal that somebody feels uncomfortable around me and I don't feel comfortable feeling big. So then I have to make myself feel small because I'm afraid that if I'm too big, people won't like me, people will judge me, my parents will chop me down, somebody in my old environment will chop me down.

00:26:01:00 - 00:26:25:07
Itamar Marani
Is that where it's actually coming from? My desire to do this or is actually help somebody? Because I've got from a very logical perspective, if my desire is to solely help somebody, then I don't think that's the most effective route. The most effective route is not to chop yourself down and help them build themselves up. However, if I'm not emotionally aware of that and I just feel uncomfortable because somebody heap praise on me and I don't know how to accept praise, and I'm like, Oh no, I'm just I'm just a simple guy.

00:26:25:07 - 00:26:42:14
Itamar Marani
I just got lucky a little bit here and there coming from different places. And I think that's the big thing to understand is it coming from a place where you're uncomfortable being big so you're making yourself small, or are you actually saying this is the most effective way to help somebody else also grow to different approaches?

00:26:42:16 - 00:27:16:10
Alexander De Fina
I think that's very powerful because you're challenged me on this, on this topic and previously I had convinced myself to separate off of self-deprecating humor was a tool to use to make the other people feel comfortable. But when you challenged me and obviously this background to this, it's more likely to be a crutch that I'm using because I'm worried about sort of sounds fluffy, but stepping into power.

00:27:16:12 - 00:27:41:09
Alexander De Fina
So it actually it's it's a defense mechanism for myself. If I if I use self-deprecating humor, I'm trying to recalibrate this person's expectation of me because I have an aversion to being in a position of power to talk to you on the service couch to why. But that's actually where it comes from. I'm not using it strategically as a tool to help this person to get from point A to point B.

00:27:41:11 - 00:28:02:22
Itamar Marani
So set in a different way. The reality is that people pleasing try to make people feel comfortable, whatever it may be. Usually it's not about the other person at all. It's just about making yourself feel comfortable to how they reacted to you. And that's the big thing. It's like you were just trying to make yourself feel comfortable and all of a sudden it got a bit uncomfortable.

00:28:03:00 - 00:28:14:06
Itamar Marani
So I go, Okay, let me deflate this tension in the room where all of a sudden I feel above them or they feel beneath me, or what I was showing me that I'm actually very smart. Let me deflate that a little bit. I don't feel comfortable with this.

00:28:14:08 - 00:28:23:12
Alexander De Fina
That's awesome. Yeah. So it's it's not being used as a tool to make the other person feel comfortable. Say this. You're using it as a defense mechanism to make yourself feel comfortable.

00:28:23:14 - 00:28:55:07
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And also talk about how they feel. So I've said this many times. I think one of the reasons I'm able to do my job very well with dealing with people's emotions or whatnot is because I am generally much less empathetic than most individuals in your life. But the reality is, when I'm talking to somebody, for example, at a conference, somebody comes up to me, I have a vivid picture of this one guy from this last conference, and I was like, I really didn't care about how he felt in the moment and how this conversation I knew was going to mess up the rest of his day.

00:28:55:13 - 00:29:08:21
Itamar Marani
I knew he's going to have to go take a nap afterwards or go relax by the pool or whatever. I knew that, but I was like, This will actually really be help for him in like five years down the line. And I remember he left the conversation with me pretty frustrated. I could see it in his face like he was like, I don't.

00:29:08:23 - 00:29:27:18
Itamar Marani
I left thinking, I think this guy thinks I'm a dick. A couple of days after the conference, he messages me, like through the app and he's like, Hey, man, I just want to say thank you very much. Actually talked to my girlfriend about this, that I really appreciate you taking the time to deal with it. But if I would have cared about how he felt in the moment, I would not have been able to deliver the truth.

00:29:27:18 - 00:29:41:00
Itamar Marani
He needed to hear it. That's awesome. Self-deprecating humor is just about me saying, how does this person feel now? Do they actually need to grow to be the best version of themselves but makes sense.

00:29:41:02 - 00:30:04:11
Alexander De Fina
Makes total sense. So we're using self-deprecating humor often as a insurance policy to make ourselves feel more comfortable. And the second part of those absolute summary statements I am yeah, this is just inaccurate because they're lacking any context of nuance and they're likely so. Yeah.

00:30:04:13 - 00:30:22:09
Itamar Marani
Yeah. Well, I don't know if it necessarily they're inaccurate. There's an effective if if you have a goal and this identity or this absolute truth, like you said, whatever it is that I am or I don't is getting in your way, you can either have that justification of why you can't do it or you can have the result.

00:30:22:11 - 00:30:47:14
Itamar Marani
And the reason I'm also comfortable saying this is I had a lot of issues connecting with people, and you got to remember that I went from very much being in the shadows in my line of work to all of a sudden becoming an entrepreneur and being a speaker and meeting a lot of people. It still feels uncomfortable for me to go to conferences and to interact with a lot of people, especially after they hear my story and they know who I am and what I've done.

00:30:47:16 - 00:31:06:08
Itamar Marani
It doesn't feel comfortable. I get a lot of internal resistance when I do it. However, it's the effective thing to do if I want to achieve certain goals of mine, one of them external to to grow the business, but to internally also get over that kind of exposure therapy. But if I would just say, you know what, I'm just I had this stuff happen to me.

00:31:06:08 - 00:31:23:16
Itamar Marani
I almost got kidnaped at it. I'm just not a people person anymore. I can have that excuse, you know, probably make me feel more comfortable in the moment, but I don't think it helped me grow. And I'm okay with in the moment, in the conference and also the days afterwards. You said, I just need a couple of days to myself to kind of readjust after that because it's a lot on my system.

00:31:23:18 - 00:31:34:19
Itamar Marani
I'm like every time it gets easier and every time I get better, just which one do you want that justification or the result you're after? You get to choose.

00:31:34:21 - 00:31:59:12
Alexander De Fina
Also by this question. In the previous question, what you're telling me understand is that this relates much more about how we internally also view the external rather than making judgments out of people. So whether it's self-deprecating humor or it's a toxic masculinity question, really, the question is why the why do we care or why is this beneficial or detrimental to us?

00:31:59:13 - 00:32:09:17
Alexander De Fina
And that's where the real value is to look as to why we actually want to know the answers to these questions as opposed to giving a negative. Yet simple response is really good.

00:32:09:19 - 00:32:29:13
Itamar Marani
I think the quicker we can understand we're selfish beings, the easier it is. That's just what it is. I remember I was in another conference and afterwards we had a big like follow up zoom call and one of the ladies got on the call and she was like saying this and I'm like, Why are you doing that? And she was like, Oh, because I want I want everyone to feel good.

00:32:29:15 - 00:32:53:09
Itamar Marani
And I was like, No, you don't. You want everyone to like you. And she was like, Oh, okay. Like the truth came too deep there, but that's just what it is. And I think it's just the first step in understanding what's going on. If I understand that I'm naturally wired to be liked by the tribe, then I can recognize, okay, is this something that I want to just, like, control my life or something that I'm peace having resistance against?

00:32:53:11 - 00:33:10:10
Itamar Marani
We all just understand what actually are wants. We can't say, Oh, I'm just doing this for other people all the time. Like even for me, like I care a ton about my son. I love him to death, but I recognize a lot of the things that I want for him or for me to feel like I'm being a good father.

00:33:10:12 - 00:33:14:19
Itamar Marani
It just it is what it is.

00:33:14:21 - 00:33:39:19
Alexander De Fina
It's fantastic. Just listening to break that down, I couldn't help but think behind all of these questions are the all the infinite number of questions that we're not asking. We're not asking about what type of potatoes to plant and what kind of soil or what part of the world why would I care? So if we're even asking these questions like, right, why is this question how the infinite possibility of questions important to you?

00:33:39:21 - 00:33:44:19
Alexander De Fina
Let's look at why that is and then why this question might be sort of holding you back from achieving that.

00:33:44:21 - 00:33:48:08
Itamar Marani
Great way to say it. Yeah, grab it.

00:33:48:10 - 00:34:08:17
Alexander De Fina
Right on the top. Let's go. All right. So Tom's question, in your journey as a coach, what were your biggest evolutions or aha moments and learnings? And a follow up would be, who are you exemplars? So what were your biggest lessons and to your exemplars?

00:34:08:19 - 00:34:29:19
Itamar Marani
And that's a good one. There's so many. One of the biggest lessons was to try a lot of things in order to find out where I can add unique value. So when I just started out and I kind of got pushed into coaching and having Max and I just gave a talk about my experiences and some people ask me like, Hey, can you coaches on mindset and business?

00:34:29:21 - 00:34:44:00
Itamar Marani
And at first I was trying a lot of things and my whole perspective on it was like, this is just going to be a time or I'm going to do a lot of volume. I'm going to have a lot of one on one clients. I'm going to try a lot of things to see what are the things that really click.

00:34:44:02 - 00:35:07:17
Itamar Marani
And all of a sudden when I noticed, I think I have a unique skillset of understanding how people's mindset works and being able to deliver that in a very linear process of how to get over certain things and click with one client or like, Oh, you just have these blocks around making money. So if you just remove this your business four axes in a month.

00:35:07:19 - 00:35:35:00
Itamar Marani
Wow, that was pretty wild. Okay, who else can I do this for? And my biggest lessons was that after doing that volume and finding my thing to niche down into it, like I don't try to be the guy that helps people that aren't motivated to get motivated. Like, I'm very clear in who I am. I'm the guy that if you're very driven, you hold yourself to internal high standards, but you feel all this resistance to doing the things that you want to be doing that you know how to be doing, I will help you and we'll do that.

00:35:35:00 - 00:35:57:05
Itamar Marani
Not in a fluffy way, not in a way, but in a very linear and a practical way, very logical way. And for me, coming to that realization of what I do, that was my biggest aha, I think exploded the business and so on. And my learnings on top of that is that different people need to be coached in different ways.

00:35:57:07 - 00:36:20:04
Itamar Marani
Now you can either learn a thousand different methods of coaching for different people or you can just say these are the kind of this is the way that I'm going to coach. So let me attract these kind of people that want to be coached like this. And that's, I think, been the the two biggest keys for the success of the business, so to speak.

00:36:20:06 - 00:36:25:20
Itamar Marani
I'm not sure that's the real question you were asking, though. Do you think there's something else there?

00:36:25:22 - 00:36:51:06
Alexander De Fina
I feel like what he's looking for is like a an example of maybe he thought you should be going left and then the market determined you should be going right or that you've you've had a change of direction, change of opinion. Your perspective of what you were previously doing wasn't either in alignment, was an effective and you've pivoted.

00:36:51:06 - 00:36:56:04
Alexander De Fina
And then like, what was the what was the thing that was the turning point?

00:36:56:06 - 00:37:22:02
Itamar Marani
So I'm seeing a bit of a different way. One of my biggest aha moments was that everybody has such different context to what they say so that I can't coach people from what my perspective is and what they were doing. So we had one guy go through the arena. I think it was maybe the second or third rendition of it, like back in the day, and he was saying that he's in a place in life where his agency is just amazing autopilot.

00:37:22:02 - 00:37:44:14
Itamar Marani
He has all this passive income coming his way and he's just kind of now trying to figure out what to do with his life. And it was kind of clunky throughout the program with him. He wasn't really bought in and I couldn't really understand what was going on. And afterwards I found out that his agency that he was like set was doing AK month.

00:37:44:16 - 00:38:05:17
Itamar Marani
I naturally assumed, okay, you're at least doing like 51 a month, whatever it may be, because an agency is doing AK month is going to churn down to zero pretty quick. But I just realized that I put my assumption in perspective and I would only say it's doing this much like it's just successful. If it's doing this much and I put my perspectives on him and therefore I wasn't able to coach him.

00:38:05:19 - 00:38:23:07
Itamar Marani
So one of the biggest things that I have now with coaching and just general conversations, I try to avoid assuming that I know what they mean when they say something. So if you were to say, I'm having a hard time here, what does that mean to you? What is actually going on? What is actual facts? Now, your interpretation of them?

00:38:23:09 - 00:38:40:17
Itamar Marani
And I think that's a crucial piece, not just for coaching but for communication, period, that we jump to assumptions based on how we would interpret a certain situation. We think, okay, this is actually the situation that might be completely different. This is interpreting in a certain way.

00:38:40:19 - 00:39:14:09
Alexander De Fina
I've got a good two inputs here I'd love to get your feelings on. One is, you know, I've got some small insights into into what leads you to this point, but not comprehensive. The first of be how you actually became a coach in the first place. Now, obviously, there's elements of teaching and knowledge transfer in your formal life, but to my understanding and correct this quickly from wrong, you went into sort of digital and it was sort of like, Hey, I'm going to move into sort of advertising marketing.

00:39:14:11 - 00:39:36:04
Alexander De Fina
I feel like, yeah, you should shut up about the marketing stuff. Tell me more about this is mindsets and behaviors perspectives. So it's almost like you had the thing that you thought you were launching there was said, Yeah, we don't actually care about that, but there's something incredibly unique about you which might have prompted you into coaching. Is that more or less how things played out or no?

00:39:36:04 - 00:39:59:15
Itamar Marani
So it's kind of get the origin story. So in 2014, I just want a big jiu jitsu competition and then my now wife and girlfriend want to go out to eat somewhere, go somewhere to eat. And we were like, okay, let's go to this like pretty basic sushi restaurant. And I realized like, man, this is too expensive for me.

00:39:59:17 - 00:40:20:22
Itamar Marani
And she was like, Oh, I get it. And I remember feeling so ashamed of where I was as an individual that I tried so hard and made so many sacrifices and was successful at it at this thing called jujitsu. But it was very lucrative, to say the least, especially back then. And then I was like, Man, something has to change.

00:40:21:00 - 00:40:42:01
Itamar Marani
Like, this is this is beneath who I hold myself to be, to not be able to afford sushi. Something's wrong here. And about a week and a half later, I got a call from my old boss in the agency when I was in Moscow working undercover. Get opened up a big security firm in London, and he was like, you know, my husband and I was like, I'm doing all right, man, what's up?

00:40:42:03 - 00:40:57:23
Itamar Marani
And he's like, We just had a guy contact us. He's a billionaire. He just sold off a bunch of oilfields. He bought this half billion dollar mega-yacht He wants to get around the world for a three year kind of retirement tour you want to join? And I was like, Yes. And like, even before he said, like, your salary is going to be bigger than I ever was an agency by then.

00:40:58:01 - 00:41:16:03
Itamar Marani
Like, Yes. And then I did that. And it was cool at first to be making a bunch of money, but it wasn't sustainable for my relationship. You were working one month on, then you get one month of paid leave and a plane ticket to anywhere you want in the world, which sounds really cool, but it's not a sustainable way to have a relationship and to have a life.

00:41:16:05 - 00:41:33:11
Itamar Marani
So at a certain point I was, okay, I got to do something else. So I read the four hour work week like everybody else, and I was like, okay, I'm not interested in marketing. It's not my passion, but I recognize that I lack skills here and I need to start giving myself an ability to launch from something. So I was like, okay.

00:41:33:11 - 00:41:49:18
Itamar Marani
I went to the mindset with to do the agency to launch a marketing agency, but I knew it wasn't my end goal. I didn't, however, let that tell me, okay, don't do anything. Oh, this is just going to be a phase where I'm going to learn something and hopefully lead me to something else to take one step forward and lead to something else.

00:41:49:19 - 00:42:10:07
Itamar Marani
So the marketing agency, it went okay. Hitch didn't blow up the world. And then I got the opportunity to give a talk at a conference where there was a lot of other marketing agency owners. Some them were X7, some of them were eight was much bigger than where I was, and I asked if I could give a talk about my lessons from the Special Forces and Undercover and about how to deal with stress, all that kind of just, yeah, that'd be great.

00:42:10:09 - 00:42:28:14
Itamar Marani
And the goal at the end of the talk was to say, Hey guys, so if this was helpful for you, my agency is kind of doing, Yeah, If you have any advice for me, I'd really, really love to hear. And the whole goal of that talk was to say, okay, I'm a really beginner person here in this skillset, but I think I'm a high level individual that can contribute to your life.

00:42:28:16 - 00:42:41:13
Itamar Marani
So if this contributed to your life and you could help me up, level my skill set here because you're really good at that at the agency, I would be really grateful for. It is a way for me to put myself out there and prove to you that I am worthy of your attention, even though I'm less successful than you are right now.

00:42:41:15 - 00:42:56:14
Itamar Marani
And then after that talk a bunch of people kidding me like, Hey, man, what if you just didn't do anything at all? You did this business coaching and I didn't know that was the thing. I initially remember saying to people not I want to jujitsu coaching anymore. There's no, no, no business coaching. That's the thing. And that's how it started by accident.

00:42:56:14 - 00:43:05:16
Itamar Marani
But I think a big part of it was I kept trying to put myself forward in a way to learn some skills and to give myself an opportunity to stumble into Lux that was be perfect.

00:43:05:16 - 00:43:34:18
Alexander De Fina
So you didn't allow a bias or any kind of sort of fallacy that I put so much work into launching this agency or this agency. The next thing that when the market spoke to you being people saying, hey, the way that you see the world, your perspectives, your experience, your mental frameworks, this is really helpful. You were you were able to pivot to sort of meet the market as opposed to pursuing the track that you were predetermined.

00:43:34:18 - 00:43:36:04
Alexander De Fina
You must go down.

00:43:36:06 - 00:44:07:05
Itamar Marani
I'll say beyond that, this is important to say I did not like doing the agency. It felt permanent, but it felt fucking demeaning at times. I was like, I know who I am. I have to deal with these kind of business owners for $500 a month to run Facebook ads for them, all that kind of jazz. And I really disliked doing it, but I recognized that I have to start building skills somewhere, and this is a good way to do it without taking on a lot of financial risk myself, because you basically learn get to learn marketing with other people's finances as long as you give them results.

00:44:07:07 - 00:44:22:17
Itamar Marani
And I really dislike that. I really dislike my job at the agency in doing it. I really, really did not like that. So when a better opportunity presented itself, I was like, Great, This is exactly why I was trying to build a steppingstone. And I remember that afternoon after I gave the talk I already had in my head.

00:44:22:17 - 00:44:39:09
Itamar Marani
Okay, we're done winding down the agency like it's through the right way we're going to wind down with ethically. But I'm on to this next thing. This served what it was supposed to be. It wasn't pleasant, but it absolutely served it. Because if I wouldn't have built up that agency, I wouldn't have been able to give that talk, which would have given me that opportunity.

00:44:39:11 - 00:44:49:03
Itamar Marani
And I think beyond being receptive to the marketplace, I just put myself in a position to do something that I didn't like that could provide a stepping stone to possibly, hopefully something bigger, which you did.

00:44:49:05 - 00:45:26:18
Alexander De Fina
Amazing. I think that's very helpful because I think a lot of people that have been elite performers in one domain and your previous life is right at the tippy top of that list in terms of incredible performance. You know, the amount of people that can do what you've done is very, very limited. But the applications of those skill sets in, you know, normal civilian life is relatively limited, you know, And so then how you then found your natural alignment wasn't by sitting in a closed room thinking about it.

00:45:26:20 - 00:45:52:12
Alexander De Fina
You started taking steps down a path that you thought you would do see through. And along that path you then deviated into what really worked out. I think that's really helpful because people like me more recently have sat on the sidelines taking trying to the analogy I've used myself is I'm trying to work out the right path and I'm thinking 18 steps ahead and doing all this analysis paralysis stuff.

00:45:52:12 - 00:46:17:01
Alexander De Fina
But what I've realized is that I'm trying to analyze the right path metaphorically while standing on the outside of the forest and staring at the forest. So that's never going to play out. I just start taking steps and I'll iterate and I'll pivot when I'm on the path. Like your example of launching the agency, which led to something else which then found sounded actual calling.

00:46:17:03 - 00:46:20:02
Itamar Marani
Do you think you've accepted the dip that you're going to have to take?

00:46:20:04 - 00:46:21:16
Alexander De Fina
Yes.

00:46:21:18 - 00:46:38:14
Itamar Marani
Because that's the biggest thing that I think people aren't willing to accept a certain dip, whether it's in the finances, their ego, their sense of self, whatever it may be. So it's easier just to stay on the sidelines like I would see so many people in the counterterrorism industry and the private security, whatever you want to call it, that were so miserable.

00:46:38:16 - 00:47:07:17
Itamar Marani
What the reality is, once you get a six figure salary, you're only working half the year. So a lot of people, especially like you said, like we don't have a skill set that's directly transferable to something else. They weren't willing to take the depth of all sun like when I started having seen my salary plummeted to zero. At first, my ego plummeted as well, like having to deal with people with like small business owners that were just a hassle to deal with for $500.

00:47:07:19 - 00:47:20:11
Itamar Marani
I remember feeling so fragile. This this is I felt like this is beneath me, but I was like, this is just it's not beneath me because it's actually what I have to do. If I want to get to the place where I want to get to. And that's what I had to keep reminding myself. My wife kept reminding me as well.

00:47:20:13 - 00:47:30:00
Itamar Marani
It's like it's just a phase. And I think most people, they're not willing to accept their dip to their ego, to their finances or whatever it may be. And that's what's more comfortable just to stay where they are. Right now.

00:47:30:02 - 00:48:01:00
Alexander De Fina
So it's it's a clinging to the old identity of I'm a secret ninja who does secret ninja stuff because I can see a lot of value to to today's feedback is sharing for, say, retired athletes. Now, if you've been a stud athlete your whole career, get a profile, etc. the day after you retire, what next? And if you're willing to start taking steps along some path might be the.

00:48:01:01 - 00:48:06:06
Itamar Marani
One that started zero. If you're not willing to restart at zero, that's the big thing then what you're saying?

00:48:06:08 - 00:48:32:01
Alexander De Fina
Yeah. So it's going to be getting comfortable with creating a new identity and taking action forwards and trusting that on that path you will iterate and improve and new opportunities be presented. But stagnation or, you know, sitting still and trying to wait for the perfect moment is almost guaranteeing that that Yeah, career doesn't, does it? Does in a sense.

00:48:32:03 - 00:48:54:10
Itamar Marani
Yeah. It's set in a simpler way, like get comfortable feeling like shit for a while because that's the reality. And if you try to avoid that, you're not going to go into the dip that's required before you go up. It's like if you want to leave this little hilltop that you're in right now for the mountaintop that you really want to get to you, Usually I take a dip and I think that's what for me was the hardest things.

00:48:54:10 - 00:49:18:09
Itamar Marani
Like it was much easier when I was, you know, being flown around business or whatever it may be, going to all these, like fancy places in Monaco and literally just having a wallet full of cash that I could use pretty much really for the boss and for myself going from that to like going to a co-working space and dealing with those kind of clients, When did I feel better about who I am and how successful an obviously the former, but I was like, you know what?

00:49:18:11 - 00:49:29:12
Itamar Marani
If I keep this momentary like good feeling, it's not going to give me the long term. And that's the thing. Like, are you willing to accept that you're going to feel like shit as you're starting something else out because you're used to feeling very competent?

00:49:29:14 - 00:50:04:19
Alexander De Fina
Yes. And I think that there's a well-trodden path by people who come from, say, your previous world. So what do I do after doing secretly? Just stuff for a while. I write a book on being a super ninja, and then I work in the private sector, basically doing other secretly just stuff. And then maybe I become a firearms instructor, but I'm more or less staying in the same universe as what was previously doing because it does shock to the ego or the the the pain of losing that form or identity and stepping into something new and starting from zero again is just too high a cost for most people to stomach.

00:50:04:21 - 00:50:07:18
Alexander De Fina
And that's actually what's holding them back now.

00:50:07:20 - 00:50:26:01
Itamar Marani
And I think to kind of wrap this up, because we're getting a bit to the weeds of this one, but with a lot of those kind of people, they're very tough people, They're very strong individuals. They come from this kind of part of the world. They've been through a lot of challenging things. I just think they're not aware They're not aware that you're going to feel this thing.

00:50:26:01 - 00:50:39:00
Itamar Marani
You're going to feel resistance to it. And that's okay. I think this is just another hard thing that you need to do. I think if I were able to now go back and speak to a lot of the people that I used to work with and be like, you know, like you can't have it, but it's going to suck for a while.

00:50:39:02 - 00:50:55:21
Itamar Marani
But I think you're capable of doing it if you're willing to sacrifice. That's right. That they would do it. And this is going back to what we said about the self-deprecating humor. If I told them that that's infinitely more effective than me just saying, Oh, I just got lucky. I got an opportunity to speak at some conference. You know, I just messed around a little bit.

00:50:55:21 - 00:51:03:04
Itamar Marani
And this happened. But I think that's kind of looping back to that question. But as we wrap it up, well.

00:51:03:06 - 00:51:19:23
Alexander De Fina
It does, but we missed out on one point. I know that we're going to the waste, but I think this is probably one of the most valuable questions. That's why I think it requires a fair bit of context. But one of the other questions, part of the question was who are your exemplars? So maybe we could provide maximum value, shortest duration of my cycle.

00:51:20:00 - 00:51:26:05
Alexander De Fina
What's your top three as exemplars people And like a one set reason as to why.

00:51:26:07 - 00:51:43:22
Itamar Marani
Okay, so I'll give four. I got one of them where words in the beginning from jujitsu my teacher Heiko has because he showed me an example of excellence in his teaching and a big part because he was never willing to accept the question. So that's a big thing. Whenever someone comes to you and ask something, don't accept the question face value.

00:51:44:03 - 00:52:04:08
Itamar Marani
That might be a deeper question that needs to be answered. That's one to Andy Grove, who wrote High Output Management. And the reason was I love the book, had so much value in it. I think it was introduction when Ben Horowitz, who was also a very successful entrepreneur, wrote the intro to it, and he was saying that the first time he met Andy Grove, he said, Oh man, I really, really loved your book.

00:52:04:08 - 00:52:26:00
Itamar Marani
I really appreciate it. And you have some Why in a variable. I want to keep understanding it, keep going in that humble and aggressive curiosity, something I aspire to have and another one is Shane Parrish. He's the founder of The Knowledge Project. Great, great book he just came out with as well. And my main takeaway from him, he always tries to figure out what is a problem.

00:52:26:02 - 00:52:41:22
Itamar Marani
Always go deeper, like his example of are you solving a three day problem, three months problem, a three year problem? If you can get to the real root of it, it won't pop again for three years. It shouldn't pop up again three days from now. And that's something I always try to think about, both in my business, but also dealing with people.

00:52:42:00 - 00:52:58:11
Itamar Marani
Like when you have a question for me, that's how I get to the root of it. And then I'm trying to answer like what is a real root of error that if we solve this, you're good for a couple of years, that you're sorted. And I don't care how uncomfortable it is, we're going to get to the root of it, the three and the last one.

00:52:58:12 - 00:53:16:05
Itamar Marani
This is a pretty simple one. But Jim Rohn, I remember when I was actually working for The Billionaire, I heard one of his lectures somehow popped up, and that's what I'm point where I was feeling kind of frustrated about my career. And I felt like, Man, I don't have any other skill sets in the world. Like, I don't know how to get out of this.

00:53:16:05 - 00:53:31:12
Itamar Marani
Like you said, my dad, I'm a fireman structure what I do. And he simply said, you can have more if you become more of like that makes so much fucking sense. I fucking love that. Because also it immediately took me out of a place where I felt I didn't have control over my life. It's like, Oh no, I can just.

00:53:31:14 - 00:53:38:22
Itamar Marani
I can become more and then I can have more. And then I was willing to pay the price to become more, so to speak, to be talked about earlier.

00:53:39:00 - 00:54:09:11
Alexander De Fina
That's fantastic. So both he go, Andy Grove, Shane Parrish, what they all had in common, the trade between all of those is that there's a deep exploration exploration to understand the question behind the questions because that's where all the real value is rather than the machine gunning out whatever, you know, first came to mind would probably come from a place of ego and wanting to be right, whereas it is a deep commitment to to wanting to almost serve by getting to the to the root cause.

00:54:09:12 - 00:54:24:03
Alexander De Fina
And then Jim Ryan, which is more sort of a high level, you know, you could have or if you become a very. Jim Ryan but that's a very powerful statement is like whatever you want is another side of building the capabilities or attributes required to have that thing.

00:54:24:05 - 00:54:39:15
Itamar Marani
It's another way of saying extreme ownership, like what Jocko preaches about extreme ownership doubts. I heard that from Jim Rohn before. Obviously his book came out and that was that's what it was. You take extreme ownership of your life and you become more. You can have more. That's just how it is. And if you're not going to become more, don't expect to have more.

00:54:39:17 - 00:54:41:16
Itamar Marani
I was like, I'm with that.

00:54:41:18 - 00:55:08:22
Alexander De Fina
Awesome to move on jurisdiction. Okay, so Jerry's question What are your tips or thoughts when it comes to being an elite performer whilst also having balance in your life when it comes to other areas that bring joy and higher levels of wellbeing, for example, relationships, health, both physical and mental and other interests Obvious? Yep.

00:55:09:00 - 00:55:25:00
Itamar Marani
So again, I think the real question he's asking is how do I live a life that I don't regret in 30 years? Because I allowed, yes, a certain passion or pursuit or whatever, and B to the overcoming and that of the very monotone life.

00:55:25:02 - 00:55:26:14
Alexander De Fina
The question behind the question.

00:55:26:16 - 00:55:52:22
Itamar Marani
Yeah. So I think the real question is that again to say what do you want out of life? Imagine yourself looking back when you're 17, 80, whatever it may be, and saying what I want out of this. Now you can say, what are the things that I don't want to have compromised on? I for me, I recognize I'm fairly ambitious and hungry individual and I enjoy the pursuit, but I don't want to have that consuming and then look back and 40 years from now and say like, Oh man, that was all consuming.

00:55:52:22 - 00:56:15:21
Itamar Marani
I don't have a relationship with my son. My wife got divorced, my wife and I got divorced, whatever it may be. So I say, okay, what are the way you can operate within constraints? What are the constraints that you need to put on yourself and say within these constraints, if I have family time, marriage, time, me time, fitness, whatever it may be, I'm going to go as aggressively as I want and I'm going to enjoy that.

00:56:15:23 - 00:56:35:13
Itamar Marani
I think that's a way to have that be liberating, to make sure that you first say, What are the things that I'm at risk to compromise on? Because that part of myself that's all consuming can overtake those things. Let me first nail those in and about minimalism in Lyric, I have a calendar for my family, time for my son, time for my date, night time with my wife.

00:56:35:13 - 00:56:54:00
Itamar Marani
We have a specific count, I think Google on the Google calendar and within those things, once it's already there, I don't I don't think if I do these things, I live a life that I regret. Go to the moon, go as hard as you can, go to the moon and is kind of a different subject. But I feel like also there's a lot of messaging right now in the world, like, well, why even pursue a goal?

00:56:54:00 - 00:57:11:07
Itamar Marani
Because when you get to your goal, there's going to be a moving goalpost. So what's the point of that? If you like chasing goalposts and that's fun for you. The pursuit and growth, do it. The point is, I don't get to a point where that's all that's consuming you. Then you regret that you didn't live your life. So I think that's the way I try to look at it first.

00:57:11:07 - 00:57:26:19
Itamar Marani
Okay. What are the things I don't want to regret? How can I make sure that they're there? And for me, a big part of that is family. That's what I'm the family's part of my immediate family, but also like making sure that I have vacations, time out to go see my parents, to go see my brother and his family.

00:57:26:21 - 00:57:45:10
Itamar Marani
So I say, if I have all these in, then don't try to hold myself back. Go for the moon. If that's what you enjoy pursuing, go for it. Like I was at a I got another conference couple of weeks ago and they had their I think his name is Qatari, the guy who owns one FC and you could tell his whole vibe.

00:57:45:10 - 00:57:59:16
Itamar Marani
He was there as a speaker and his whole vibe were like, If you're on fire and you're enjoying it, find more people that are on fire and get after it. And I was like, I like this energy. That's what I vibe with. If for some people what they vibe with, oh, we just want to be more calm and tranquil.

00:57:59:20 - 00:58:16:11
Itamar Marani
Cool, That's great for you. We got different folks, different strokes, but if you ever really perform anything like life balance and you just want to like, really go at it, figure out a way what are the constraints that if you operate with them, we'll give you a balance. Go to the moon. That's what I would say.

00:58:16:13 - 00:58:34:14
Alexander De Fina
That's fantastic. I couldn't help but think of the analogy before. When you're talking about the people, you're saying, what's the point of setting a goal? Because once you reach it, there's going to be a new goalpost. I couldn't help but think about a golden retriever at the beach. Someone's throwing a tennis ball and the golden retriever would like, What's the point?

00:58:34:19 - 00:58:40:15
Alexander De Fina
The bring it back. What you do is start throwing away again. It's like that's that is the point. Like, yeah.

00:58:40:17 - 00:59:08:01
Itamar Marani
So I think it's become this very like philosophical high ground now that if you become so in line that I don't even pursue anything, I'm just so chill. It's like, good for you. If I like the pursuit, I like getting better things. I like overcoming challenges. I'm going to do me. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs now feel like they don't have the permission to really go all out in certain things because they're like, Well, I've been told that that's not what's going to make me happy anyway.

00:59:08:03 - 00:59:35:06
Itamar Marani
I think that's true that in isolation, if it comes at the expense of all the other things, like you have a terrible family life, you don't have a relationship, you're terrible health. Yes, you're probably going to be miserable. That is true. If you sacrifice all of that for this and it consumes you dangerous. However, if you can lock in these things in place and you say this is a fun game for me to play with the retriever, go fetch the ball, run as fast as you can, enjoy it, have fun.

00:59:35:08 - 01:00:02:00
Alexander De Fina
And in your experience, do people is the challenge for the say entrepreneur is either identifying what's important to them? It's easy to talk about business, but it might be hard to talk about relationships and spiritual growth as well. Other is of life. Is it that they're not clear on what's important to them or is it they don't know how to to balance it?

01:00:02:00 - 01:00:13:18
Alexander De Fina
So they have clarity, but they don't how to actually balance their time allocations and sort of mental bandwidth? Or is it a combination of both?

01:00:13:19 - 01:00:39:16
Itamar Marani
So if the question is why they're more inclined to do so, I think it's because it doesn't actually give them as clear of a reward by growing your business and seeing the numbers rise, give you an immediate dopamine hit. So tangible that can happen on a day to day, month to month. But I remember be seeing other things that are less tangible, teary, like your health, your relationships and so on.

01:00:39:18 - 01:01:02:04
Itamar Marani
It's harder to spot. And I think a lot of the successful entrepreneurs are such pragmatic individuals. That's why they're successful. Mm hmm. That they have a more pragmatic KPI to follow with growing just a business. And even though they're aware, like I know my relationships are important, it it doesn't click in as easy for them to quantify if it's successful or if it's not.

01:01:02:06 - 01:01:13:12
Itamar Marani
So it's because it's not a game where they can see the scoreboard and how they're winning or that losing. They're just not attracted to playing that. Does that make sense? There's a bit to abstract.

01:01:13:14 - 01:01:33:13
Alexander De Fina
No, no, it's not. It's not abstract. I I've taken tremendous value personally from say, relationship Tracker that you should know. If we had met ten years ago, I would have had a very different, very biased perspective on that of anyone who needs to audit and report back on their relationship. Probably, yeah, that's part of their relationship. They shouldn't be on it.

01:01:33:13 - 01:02:14:00
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, and that's a good example of my business dealings. I'm very systemize process, etc. and that's not because I'm naturally that way. I've just enough else to recognize that if I had measured those things or been more focused on what mattered. So now I've overcompensated with tracking and the same thing is true with relationships. Because if I'm not tracking what I've determined to be important, or if I don't know what's important, the chances of this relationship being, you know, the definition of of an amazing relationship play not going to play out by accident.

01:02:14:02 - 01:02:15:18
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

01:02:15:20 - 01:02:17:18
Alexander De Fina
So I think that's really, really helpful.

01:02:17:20 - 01:02:36:04
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And like you said, also with the relationship tracker, we said it's a living document. Like the wild thing is you ask most guys who are very cerebral are most women who are like really, really thoughtful about this stuff, Like what are the exact things that if your partner did, you would be super happy. They'll be like, I think it's this, this and this.

01:02:36:06 - 01:02:52:22
Itamar Marani
You have a clue, extreme certainty about that. They're going to do things in business. We're saying, okay, I have this hypothesis of what will work. Let me test that out. Let me track that, figure out what the data is, Come back to this the right way, wrong way, doing the same thing in your relationship. But because we don't do that, it's not as tangible.

01:02:52:22 - 01:02:56:04
Itamar Marani
We focus less on it.

01:02:56:06 - 01:03:05:00
Alexander De Fina
Do you feel that to Jerry is a question like Jerry's? Question more or less, is how do we have balance in our life, not just in business, but also in relationships, hobbies, etc.?

01:03:05:02 - 01:03:22:10
Itamar Marani
I take it seriously. Put it very simply, take it as seriously if you want balance in your relationships, but you're giving so much more attention to your business, figure out, okay, like how do I take this relationship more seriously If I'm using trackers and spreadsheets to make sure my business is successful? Are you doing the same thing in your relationship?

01:03:22:12 - 01:03:28:15
Itamar Marani
If not, why do you accept Expect this to be exceptional in this to also be exceptional if you're doing two different things.

01:03:28:17 - 01:03:55:23
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, that least. My question is, do you feel that there's a challenge in balancing what is internally important, yet what gets externally validated? And an example of that is I'm much more likely to get externally validated by gender by creating a new company that makes $100 million in profit a year than I am about getting excellently validated because I give my wife so much time and attention because I'm an amazing son to my mother or brother to my siblings.

01:03:56:00 - 01:04:15:11
Itamar Marani
And again, that's where we go For the first thing I said, it's like when you look back at hindsight, what do you think was more important when you're 80 and you look back? What do you think is going to be most important to you? And again, if you're saying the most important thing for me, not because I care about what other people thought, that I really have this desire not to prove people wrong, but I just really like Billy.

01:04:15:11 - 01:04:30:23
Itamar Marani
And that was my most fun thing to build this hundred million dollar company and great. But if you're saying I think I'm actually just doing this for external validation, when you're 80, you're probably going to assume, okay, when I'm I'm probably going to care about that because I know people don't care about that. So therefore, this is what's going on.

01:04:31:01 - 01:04:49:06
Itamar Marani
And yes, you're always going to have that fighting against you. That impulse to, as a default, be accepted by the tribe, gain respect, whatever it may be. But that's what you have to kind of stand guard and say, this is not my deal, this is not what I'm signing up for. I recognize this is more tempting, but this is that junk food, so to speak.

01:04:49:08 - 01:04:52:00
Itamar Marani
I'm not eating that.

01:04:52:02 - 01:05:16:18
Alexander De Fina
That's perfect. So looking into our future self gives us the benefit of hindsight that what's most important in life is probably not this quarter's marginal improvement of EBIDTA or this rose on a certain campaign. It's going to be the big ticket stuff. Was I good person? Did I enjoy my lot of new experiences? And then to track those things.

01:05:16:18 - 01:05:34:23
Alexander De Fina
So get clear first on what's important big picture document those and then to track them to avoid a situation. I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs falling where they're playing Whac-A-Mole, where they focus so much right now on launching this new business that nothing else matters. New business is in a good position. Oh, shit. Now I'm getting divorced.

01:05:35:00 - 01:05:57:16
Alexander De Fina
So going out to tend to a relationship issue over here. I fixed that shit. Business is gone backwards, back into mode. Oh, my health. Not so good. I'm in hospital for six months and they're just playing whack a mole and shifting because they're not. They want, first of all, clear on what was important and then keeping all of those things aligned.

01:05:57:18 - 01:06:07:05
Alexander De Fina
You know, 24 seven, it was like disproportionate attention to one thing at the cost and detriment to others, which made it never really rising all at the same time.

01:06:07:06 - 01:06:26:04
Itamar Marani
And I'll say a simple way that's that I found successful for myself is just to operate within constraints. I recognize right now my focus is all the times that business. It's a fun game I like to play. Now. I recognize that if I just have in my calendar that we have two date nights a week and we have a date lunch with my wife.

01:06:26:06 - 01:06:46:01
Itamar Marani
If I do those things, it's pretty challenging for us to have to not have a sense of connection. If every day at 545 I take my kid to write Bicycle and we just do that every day. It's like there's obviously things where I sit and drive with them a lot aside from that. But if that happens, okay, I'm probably doing well at this.

01:06:46:03 - 01:06:52:22
Itamar Marani
So I just put those things in my calendar that forced me to say, okay, if I'm doing these things, it's going to be hard to mess it up.

01:06:53:00 - 01:07:02:14
Alexander De Fina
Perfect. It's quite simple to get clear. What's an important measure? What's important? Yeah. Awesome. Move on to Judy.

01:07:02:16 - 01:07:03:21
Itamar Marani
Let's do it.

01:07:03:23 - 01:07:23:16
Alexander De Fina
So Judy's got a couple of questions live with the first one. First question is, how do you let go of the belief that your productivity equals your worth, that your existence is only justified by hard work and the harder you work, the more value you have?

01:07:23:18 - 01:07:41:03
Itamar Marani
I sure in a different way. It's like you have to define what your worth is. It's such a weird, vague term, like, What am I worth? What's my worth? It's like, your worth to the marketplace is different than your worth to your family or whatever. And you just got to accept like, where do you actually care? Where do you need to feel more worthy?

01:07:41:05 - 01:08:05:19
Itamar Marani
And if it's just around the marketplace and you're saying my work isn't good enough, it needs to be better. I need to have a bigger product and be more productive or whatever it may be. That's what it is. Some of these things like it just is what it is. But again, you got to find like where what is your worth made up of and what does that even mean to you?

01:08:05:21 - 01:08:10:21
Alexander De Fina
So how, how would you how would we start that? How do we define what our worth?

01:08:10:21 - 01:08:36:12
Itamar Marani
It's it's a weird one, to be honest. I'm not sure how to answer it. What does that even mean? What's your worth? It's I think it's one of those questions that sometimes it's a non-issue. It's a core you're answering to. It's like if you feel like you're doing the right things to the right people that you want in your life are being attracted into your life because you're that kind of person.

01:08:36:14 - 01:09:02:02
Itamar Marani
You're getting what you want out of life. Great. I think I've never stopped to think, what's my worth? It's just a very practical, let's say let's put it this way very bluntly. Like in 2014, you go back to that jujitsu time, you were already doing some very successful things in Hong Kong. You probably wouldn't have wanted to interact with me because you wouldn't have seen the value in that.

01:09:02:04 - 01:09:06:03
Alexander De Fina
Fictional murderer on jujitsu. So I think.

01:09:06:05 - 01:09:07:03
Itamar Marani
But still, they're going to.

01:09:07:06 - 01:09:09:09
Alexander De Fina
Show you What was that show. Sure.

01:09:09:10 - 01:09:29:06
Itamar Marani
Yeah. So, okay, like, if what I want then is to have these kind of level of people interact with me and to be better, it just a simple perspective. And I'm like, am I worth I mean, this is like, what do I want? What needs to happen over that to be a reality check? I've never stopped to think about what's my worth, and it's honestly to who to what.

01:09:29:08 - 01:09:52:03
Alexander De Fina
I think it's an impossible question to answer because it lacks any context. But so what's worth in what context? And this is actually a conversation I was having with my wife yesterday as we're coming back from a dog training place with three puppies and we posed a question to each other, What do we want our our dogs to be?

01:09:52:05 - 01:10:13:05
Alexander De Fina
Which is an impossible question, because under what context? What do I want my dogs to be like? It's not the complete sentence or the complete question, but I wanted to be like at the beach, What do I want them to be like at home? What do I want to be like in a playful environment? And so I think that's a more helpful way for us to determine our self-worth.

01:10:13:06 - 01:10:37:00
Alexander De Fina
In what context? Because if I was doing a business mastermind with super high level guys role owning seven or eight figures, my friend who's a professional in a may fighter, might not add much value to that conversation. But if we're in a bar in a fight breaks out. My friend is a professional and my fighter is a great guy to have in the team.

01:10:37:01 - 01:10:44:15
Alexander De Fina
So I'm the only only with the context could we establish what without context worth is impossible to actually.

01:10:44:15 - 01:11:10:18
Itamar Marani
Yeah. I think Mission Worth has become one of those kind of fat words because it's not politeness to say like, what's the utility like that may fighter high utility in a bar fight business master might lower utility now again and if I want these kind of people in my life I have to be a utility. Then it's like I remember there was another guy that he was in the arena and one of his beliefs I don't remember exactly it was, but he changed it to that.

01:11:10:18 - 01:11:31:07
Itamar Marani
I am absolutely worthy of unconditional love. And we're asking like, why do you think you're worthy of unconditional love? Why you deserve unconditional love? And he was like, What? You mean because you thought that's so that's what he was taught that that's an empowering thought. I'm supposed to be worthy of unconditional love. I think it's all conditional, Dude, if you are a horrible human being, you should.

01:11:31:07 - 01:11:46:17
Itamar Marani
Do you think a horrible human being who does all the wrong things? You know, they're given all the advantages, whatever, and be there were the unconditional love. He was like, no. And I could tell that when I told him that, his brain kind of popped open. So I, being of utility to other people like Schwarzenegger, put out that book recently, be useful.

01:11:46:19 - 01:11:57:02
Itamar Marani
That's really what it is. It's like if you want certain people or certain things in your life, be of enough utility, you will get them. It really is that and magical and practical.

01:11:57:04 - 01:12:03:05
Alexander De Fina
That is so helpful. So rather than defining it as self-worth, let's define it as utility.

01:12:03:07 - 01:12:04:05
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

01:12:04:06 - 01:12:35:10
Alexander De Fina
And statements or like things, I find that that the phrase unconditional love as being one of the stupidest phrases that's ever been put together because no, it's all hyper conditional and actually under all the value is understanding under what conditions. If I love you as a friend, it's conditional because of this exchange or this, this, this relationship. This is how it benefits me.

01:12:35:10 - 01:13:04:21
Alexander De Fina
Hopefully so it benefits you. Great. But if you went and murdered a bunch of five year olds at a preschool that love as a friend is immediately ceased. So it's hyper conditional. But actually I understand the conditions is where the value is. So utility rather than worse. That's great. Next question. When working the questions in your six week program, I think the arena for the links below to apply.

01:13:04:23 - 01:13:14:09
Alexander De Fina
How do you know that you have the right end goal as opposed to the goal that you think you're supposed to want to question?

01:13:14:09 - 01:13:35:13
Itamar Marani
So again, one of the things that we do is we take you that how you said get hindsight by looking into your future. And the thing that does is the best way I've heard it asked is what would you do if you could never announce it, if nobody could ever know about it? Because all of a sudden that takes away like all how you said, like, Whoa, I want to build this to impress other people or whatever.

01:13:35:15 - 01:13:58:09
Itamar Marani
Maybe now the reality is usually once we shed that social lens that people usually see the world through, we figure out if it's the right question, a much better goal, an end goal, and it takes away along the way. I think, again, it's the whole to put one step in front of the other, one foot in front of the other, keep moving.

01:13:58:15 - 01:14:13:22
Itamar Marani
The path reveals itself then that keeps you in the path reveals itself to start out with something you recognize. Okay, this is where I want it. This is this direction I now see. This is direction. Great. Start walking there when you're walking the exact right. This is the exact now. Okay, great. How do you find the exact trail to?

01:14:13:22 - 01:14:36:02
Itamar Marani
That mountaintop. And a lot of times people think you have to have this end goal before you start the super clear. It's like get a sense of direction by saying, now, do other people want Hannah? I don't want a person I really want for myself. Start walking it, clarify more things, you'll figure it out. The path reveals itself and it's like if you're not going anywhere, you're definitely not going to find your direction.

01:14:36:07 - 01:14:40:00
Itamar Marani
If you're willing to explore, you will find it.

01:14:40:02 - 01:14:51:00
Alexander De Fina
That's awesome. So every great explorer in history didn't necessarily know the destination. They just knew that they were charging into the unknown.

01:14:51:02 - 01:14:56:22
Itamar Marani
Yeah, I think that a sense of like I want to discover things, they go from there.

01:14:57:00 - 01:15:08:02
Alexander De Fina
And that lens of either external validation or social approval. How common among several journals that you work with do you find that lens appearing?

01:15:08:04 - 01:15:23:18
Itamar Marani
I, I would answer it in a different way. I think it's just part of the human condition we're wired to that we're wired to be in tribes in order for it, in order to survive. A 2000 years ago, you couldn't do it by yourself. And you also can switch tribes. That wasn't an opportunity. Like, Oh, I'll just take a flight somewhere else.

01:15:23:18 - 01:15:51:13
Itamar Marani
I'll find my exact crew of people that think like me. We just have this one tribe and we have to fit in for our survival. And then it's still wired into us. And again, it's one of those things that if we're not aware that it always is there, it's going to keep messing with us. And it's like if you're not aware that there's a little bit of less air in your front left tire, you're always going to veer to the left if you're going like this is just part of this car that I have and I can correct for it, you can go straight.

01:15:51:15 - 01:15:57:12
Itamar Marani
So it's it's not often the entrepreneurs that I work with, it's with everybody.

01:15:57:14 - 01:16:04:16
Alexander De Fina
This question was how do you stop sabotaging yourself and give yourself permission to achieve more?

01:16:04:18 - 01:16:41:23
Itamar Marani
So it's not about necessarily giving yourself what I've seen. It's not necessarily about giving yourself permission. It's understanding there's a fear of why you're not going to the next level that either you think you can handle that next level of success of building a bigger business team or whatever it may be, or that you're afraid to lose love from a lot of people or lose approval again from the tribe if you overachieve what they do and the amount of times that people come with a fear like they self-sabotage because of them thinking if they succeed, it will mean X, Y, z about the people that they have around.

01:16:42:01 - 01:16:58:01
Itamar Marani
And I tell them, Listen, go have a conversation with that person today. Talk to them about this day, and they come back after two days, like feel like saying, Oh, man, I feel like I just have a weight off my shoulder that I never knew I had. This is very common with a lot of the guys with their father.

01:16:58:03 - 01:17:15:09
Itamar Marani
If they're going to surpass their father's success and they don't really know how to talk about it with them, finances are already doing so much better than their father ever did, Whatever it may be, it makes them feel uncomfortable. And that discomfort creates a kind of ceiling where they put themselves. I can deal with this level of discomfort, but not over that.

01:17:15:11 - 01:17:32:06
Itamar Marani
So I'm going to keep myself here, having a lot of time to figure out, like, what's the fear of why you don't want to actually do better. It's like you're not trying to self-sabotage yourself. You're just afraid to do better. So ask yourself, why am I afraid to do better? Figuring that out and then resolving it goes a really long way.

01:17:32:08 - 01:17:57:23
Alexander De Fina
So it could be fear of success. So it's not the so the fear of selling a fear of success. You also come across people who have a fear of failure. And the context here is that there's some kind of sabotaging behavior of perspective. Is it possible that they believe the pursuit of attaining whatever they're working towards is guaranteed to sell you because you know what to many business war stories.

01:17:57:23 - 01:18:06:12
Alexander De Fina
So if I sabotage myself, it's easy that I engineer my failure rather than the market determining myself know.

01:18:06:14 - 01:18:41:05
Itamar Marani
We can get very philosophical on this. It's also, again, they're afraid to succeed to a certain level and that'll come crashing down. I can handle this level, so let me keep it at this level, even though there's so many opportunities out there, let me keep it at this level where sustainable And again, it might. And so the way I figured out going to cut a bit, this is the thing that I want to work on with people's mindset, specifically understanding their unconscious and removing it was that, let's call them a client, A that they had a ton of potential in their business.

01:18:41:07 - 01:18:59:02
Itamar Marani
Everything was aligned for them, like the amount of client amount of the size of, let's call it their email list, offer everything, but they just willing to actually send out that offer. Even though industry experts told me, if you did this, you're going to get forex your results because they thought if they made a lot of money, that means they're greedy.

01:18:59:02 - 01:19:16:06
Itamar Marani
And if they make a lot of money and people think they're greedy, they won't love them. That's why it was that simple, that that DBA, that simple. So that's why they kept self-sabotaging and not actually launching their campaigns or launching them a kind of messing it up because they just didn't want to become rich. That if they became rich, people won't love them.

01:19:16:06 - 01:19:21:10
Itamar Marani
They'll think they're greedy and they're a selfish individual.

01:19:21:12 - 01:19:29:13
Alexander De Fina
So whether it's the fear, it's apprehension or success or failure, it's still the same thing. It's apprehension, fear.

01:19:29:13 - 01:19:48:15
Itamar Marani
It's a but again, it's so the success comes. You're afraid that first you'll succeed more and then you'll fail at maintaining your life. At that of success. Whether it's the business that will crumble or your relationships around you will crumble. But it's first, you're afraid I'm going to succeed more so I'm going to. Because if I succeed more, then it will fail.

01:19:48:17 - 01:19:53:04
Itamar Marani
Therefore, if I preemptively cap this, I don't have to go through that up and down. It's going to be unpleasant.

01:19:53:06 - 01:20:07:10
Alexander De Fina
Perfect, perfect. Awesome. Thank you. And the last question was, almost all the people who go through the arena are men. What has been the experience of the women who have done it?

01:20:07:12 - 01:20:26:19
Itamar Marani
So we do women cohorts about once every two years or so. To be honest, all the women that go into the course, they say, I just want to be in a group with the guys. Literally every single one of them says that I want to be the group of the guys. None of the women are the problem. The reason why we do that is because when the guys are in group with women, they don't open up as much.

01:20:26:21 - 01:20:52:22
Itamar Marani
And because again, the guys are the majority of the clients, that's where we optimize the business around. Now they've got that out of the way because I fear that's going to be asked if I didn't say that the experience with women and again, the kind of women that I work with are, let's call it, the more they're more masculine in a lot of their traits, where they're hyper logical and they probably also are attracted to what we do because of the linear fashion in which it's done.

01:20:53:00 - 01:21:11:09
Itamar Marani
It's not a more it's called feminine like embrace your feelings, sit with them, see how it's going. But this was going on. This was inside you to uncover that. That's remove it. Let's move on. So the experiment, the women that I have worked with, also a couple of the one on one women that work has been great. Some of the women that come into the program need more time to process than the guys.

01:21:11:11 - 01:21:26:18
Itamar Marani
As far as time to deal with that emotion. It's like the guys. A lot of times they come in and they say, okay, this is what's going on. We encourage them. They're like, Holy crap. I don't know. I think I thought that way. They're like, If that's wild, that doesn't make any sense. Let's go in a more robotic way.

01:21:26:20 - 01:21:45:04
Itamar Marani
And the women sometimes I found again, this is an overgeneralization, but I need to mourn something. So they need to mourn like, Oh, but this how I view the world so far. And that's really messed me up. Okay, I need to sit with that little bit, make peace with it. Now I can move on. But again, the kind of women that are attracted to what we do, I've had a great experience with.

01:21:45:05 - 01:21:59:02
Itamar Marani
They've seen great results. It's just that the men make it more difficult. And that's just the way the business is right now. If the business explodes and have an infinite amount of leads coming from women as well, that'd be something else interesting.

01:21:59:02 - 01:22:27:08
Alexander De Fina
I've I've experienced the opposite. So I've had a few female businesses as a as a non female that had quite significant market success very, very early. And I think that's because I was putting a message or philosophy into the market that was different. I certainly wasn't the first person to do women's only stuff. So why did why was mine more successful?

01:22:27:10 - 01:22:48:20
Alexander De Fina
And it's because that there was obviously an undercurrent of women who needed a different message. So there was play messages out there. You are enough this hold hands Kumbaya. Yeah, I came in with a different message. You're fat, suffering like an asshole. Do these things. Do it in this way.

01:22:48:22 - 01:22:51:16
Itamar Marani
And so by a different message, you mean a truth.

01:22:51:18 - 01:23:17:04
Alexander De Fina
A truth. And the market responded and said, Hey, I want the truth. I want it followed. So I think the market often looks off, looks after these things, and that's where we can cut through the sort of like polarization or sort of feminism or of toxic masculinity and say, look, if I'm putting messages to the market this is my flag on the ground, so this will stand for male, female, whatever.

01:23:17:06 - 01:23:40:01
Alexander De Fina
People who relate to that message are obviously getting value from it. And benefiting from it. You can spin your wheels and waste your time with all the gender stuff, but these people are engaged in a practice which is enriching their lives and they're busy moving forwards whilst other people are sitting around debating the pros and cons of this gender politics.

01:23:40:03 - 01:24:02:06
Alexander De Fina
So I think that's really helpful to remind yourself of. Quite the opposite effect where guys would come and do it, do it, bring a do day and the guys would get crushed during these workouts. A lot of these guys, you know, people, few of them were professional rugby players, the Hong Kong team, they never wanted to come back ever again and the women really enjoyed it.

01:24:02:06 - 01:24:10:00
Alexander De Fina
So I think just knowing what you stand for, why you stand for it and stick to your guns will attract people agendas irrelevant.

01:24:10:02 - 01:24:25:18
Itamar Marani
Yeah, but I think to kind of go back to what we talk about, the very, very first part of this podcast, I would I could see how that would make people feel very uncomfortable. Like if they were in my seat because I do get messages and I think, hey, it's not cool. They are only opening arenas to men right now.

01:24:25:19 - 01:24:39:09
Itamar Marani
What the EFF This is an inclusive, whatever it might be. And I'm like, that's absolutely true. It is not inclusive, but that is not the number one priority we have in the business right now. And I'm at peace with how we do things from integrity wise. I always offer one on one spots to women as well like that.

01:24:39:09 - 01:24:51:16
Itamar Marani
I don't separate you. There's nothing to do with men or women. It's just that's what it is. But again, I'm at peace with how I do things. I'm okay with that. I'm fine with it. And therefore, this is like a non-issue when people it up.

01:24:51:18 - 01:25:16:00
Alexander De Fina
That's one of the many attributes that sets you apart, which I think a lot of people do suffer from, is trying to appease what's important to other people. So the fact that you're not inclusive, you're right. It's not it's not inclusive. It's a accelerator for high performing people. We want to be even performing. So, you know, for all the people out there, there's 8 billion people on us.

01:25:16:01 - 01:25:23:17
Alexander De Fina
It's very hard to do anything which is inclusive of all people. So by default, you're exclusive to at least one person.

01:25:23:19 - 01:25:42:17
Itamar Marani
Yeah, I'll say it like this. So I was brought up in a culture that was extremely un inclusive in the Special Forces, and there is nothing inclusive about the way they go about things. They kick people out left and right. You literally start out with X amount of people by the end of each unit, not just the most elite ones of.

01:25:42:17 - 01:26:01:11
Itamar Marani
The Special forces usually end up with about half of that. They purposely overdraft people in order to weed certain weed out and kick people out. I kicked out of the first unit. It was very clear me that excellence takes priority over inclusivity and that being excellent isn't an inclusive thing. It has to be earned. And this is one of our values.

01:26:01:11 - 01:26:09:17
Itamar Marani
It's like, I value excellence over inclusivity. Maybe that will change in the future. Maybe not. But this is what I right now, and I'm at peace with it.

01:26:09:19 - 01:26:30:10
Alexander De Fina
But that's also so it's almost impossible to be absolutely inclusive on anything because as long as there's one person you wouldn't accept into the team, you know, entirely inclusive. Yeah. So not enough inclusivity doesn't exist. It's a fallacy.

01:26:30:12 - 01:26:49:06
Itamar Marani
Again, if that's all your priority, then yeah, that's. But again, if you're saying that's the highest priority over excellence, over merit, whatever it may be, cool if you're finding a way to wear them, great. I haven't really seen that yet. I think even in big corporations, there's always that friction of trying to marry. Merit with inclusivity is a challenge and right now.

01:26:49:06 - 01:26:51:13
Itamar Marani
That's a challenge that I just want to take onto my plate.

01:26:51:15 - 01:27:01:20
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, I'm recognizing that you're attracting elite performers. Elite performers don't like mediocre people, and military people don't like elite performance. Why would you try to put them all into the same fold?

01:27:01:22 - 01:27:03:11
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

01:27:03:13 - 01:27:13:02
Alexander De Fina
Great. Dave, this is interesting question. Short and interesting accountability. Full stop. I don't get it. I still have results.

01:27:13:04 - 01:27:34:15
Itamar Marani
So this was a question that came up in a recent arena and I wanted to put this out there, and this is exactly what was said. And he was like, I don't really get accountability because it's like I don't do certain things, but I still get results like he had. He has a successful seven figure business and I was like, If you're sitting right here in front of me right now, something is wrong.

01:27:34:17 - 01:28:02:07
Itamar Marani
Think there's a reason we're having this conversation. It's not like everything is perfect. He was like, Okay, that's true. I was like, It's because you do not like how you feel about yourself. And then there was a bit of air that kind of came out of the room. And so, like, that's what accountability really is. Even if you can get away internal accountability, even if you can get away with certain things, and because you have a business with enough leverage in the right market, whatever it may be, can still get external results.

01:28:02:07 - 01:28:21:09
Itamar Marani
But you don't like how you feel about yourself when you look at yourself in the mirror at the end of every day. That's where accountability comes into play. Because if you can hold yourself accountable to the kind of person you want to be, regardless of external results, then you will get the ultimate prize, which is not external results, but how you internally feel about yourself and about the world.

01:28:21:11 - 01:28:35:17
Itamar Marani
And I thought that was such a powerful conversation he and I had that I want to include this in this Q&A. I think a lot of people don't really get that. They're like, Well, I'm kind of doing all right anyway. So what's the point of that? It's about internal accountability.

01:28:35:19 - 01:28:59:03
Alexander De Fina
That's fantastic. And separating the external, both internal is in. That is a possibility that there's a bit of a blindspot as to what are the actions, behaviors, perspectives that led to that. So today's question, you know, I'm still getting results. If you ask Dave, you know, do you do things to get those results or is this about autopilot?

01:28:59:09 - 01:29:02:12
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, I do things.

01:29:02:13 - 01:29:25:00
Itamar Marani
I think it's more from a lack of understanding what to optimize around. So if he was only the only his sole focus was just results in the business like, what's the point of accountability? Honestly, we're getting the results that we want. But he was unhappy. He feels a bit unfulfilled. He like things are just kind of like that.

01:29:25:02 - 01:29:39:12
Itamar Marani
But if what you optimize around your focus, how can I feel proud of myself? How can I enjoy this? Right. It's a very different thing. You're optimizing around and that's why you need accountability for.

01:29:39:14 - 01:30:00:09
Alexander De Fina
Forgive me for being a dead horse here, but my understanding is that if those actions required for that outcome so the business does whatever. Right? Do you do stuff? Yes. Q What if you just didn't do any of those things for the next year? Oh no, the business would collapse. Oh, so there is some degree of accountability in what you're already doing.

01:30:00:11 - 01:30:23:06
Itamar Marani
So I think he's playing at a third of his potential. That's the thing. The business is getting results. They're getting good results compared when he's comparing himself to other people. It's not when you compare himself to who he knows he can be, but he's afraid to step into that. So the moment he accepts that truth, that's when it's not really accepting that he doesn't really know it on a conscious level.

01:30:23:06 - 01:30:44:03
Itamar Marani
But he feels that. And that's why that feeling of like life is just kind of like mediocre. That's what it is. And for him to step up into the person he knows he can be but is a bit of afraid to be. It takes accountability to be that person. That's one for him. And this is a personal thing I know who, like you'll feel like life is on fire.

01:30:44:05 - 01:31:10:02
Alexander De Fina
Go, go, go, go to. Great question. Great question. Is, is it okay to be pretty happy making good money and living a nice, comfortable life? Or is the only valid path to live, to live to relentlessly pursue material goods and wealth? Or the Stoics would ask, how much is enough?

01:31:10:04 - 01:31:36:06
Itamar Marani
It's a big one. The did whatever makes you happy, whatever. Again, whatever you won't regret. That's the best way I would say. Looking to the future, what are you going to regret? Go for? And again the relentless pursue how he said to live to relentlessly pursue material goods and wealth again, there's a tipping point. Everybody knows that a tipping point that once you get beyond a certain amount of material goods and wealth, there's diminishing return.

01:31:36:06 - 01:31:56:02
Itamar Marani
It doesn't really add much. But again, if you enjoy the pursue the pursuit of it, of goals, of going into bigger social circles, meaning higher level people, whatever it may be, that's really great for you and that's what drives you. Great. If you're playing the game not for just a reward, but because you love playing the game, keep playing the game.

01:31:56:04 - 01:32:24:21
Itamar Marani
If you're saying, you know what, I'm just I'm really genuinely I'm not afraid to go bigger, but I'm just genuinely happy to be making X amount of money right now and just living a more slow paced life. Great for you like this. Something actually a story that we're going to have in the book or it's coming up. The way I want to close the book is basically to say this is just a toolkit to get you to live whatever life you want to live out of the, I don't know, the triple figure people we've had in the arena.

01:32:24:23 - 01:32:48:11
Itamar Marani
There was one guy who, after doing the arena, became, I don't want to call it less ambitious, but he acted as somebody much less ambitious. And here's what I mean by that. He had already a very successful business and business. He was running on the side and he was burning himself to death. Now, he didn't really want to be an entrepreneur.

01:32:48:13 - 01:33:10:05
Itamar Marani
He just so deeply craves approval from his father. And the moment he realized this is the only thing that's driving me, it's on my actual want to grow stuff. I don't actually enjoy game. He shut one of those down because he already had enough money in his bank card basically to live a very like chill life. And then you know what?

01:33:10:05 - 01:33:24:23
Itamar Marani
He just walks on the beach and does his thing. I can be so and I'm so happy for him. I couldn't be happier for him. He's living his true definition of success. And I think that's a big thing. I don't try to put ambition on anyone. It's like, let's just clear this stuff out because you can do what you want.

01:33:25:01 - 01:33:39:19
Itamar Marani
It's not for you is to live a very calm life. Great. If that for you to go and conquer the world's great as well. It's like all this stuff that we're talking about. It's just a toolkit to find what you really want and give yourself the ability to pursue it.

01:33:39:21 - 01:34:11:12
Alexander De Fina
I think I think that's one of your many unique talents, is assisting people to get closer to what they actually want, what they think they want, what society is telling them, what they should have, what do they really want without the judgment or downloading your ideas onto them. Just know all about, you know, Rolls-Royces and and fancy watches.

01:34:11:13 - 01:34:34:21
Alexander De Fina
It's about asking those questions and prompting and navigating the person to uncover many dimensions deeper. What is it that they truly want? Because with Dave's question, so a great question to me that all the value was in the first quick three words Is it okay? Okay, yeah, you tell me.

01:34:34:23 - 01:34:56:12
Itamar Marani
So the music that it's okay to do whatever you want, what I think is not okay is to do something that you feel compelled to because of some vague reason that it's not very valid. Like I just being driven to do this of a fear of not having a father's approval or a fear of people not thinking this of me like, is it okay if you're very clear on what you want, why you want it?

01:34:56:12 - 01:35:07:02
Itamar Marani
It's not driven by some social default, by some survival mechanism or whatever. And B, but actually logical, rational thought out perspective. Absolutely. Do you?

01:35:07:04 - 01:35:31:20
Alexander De Fina
Yeah. So someone who's fully content and fully clear about what they value might not ask the question in that way. And this like likely to be some internal conflict confusion that they're grappling with because I wouldn't ask you the question, is it okay that I walk down the street and beat up an old lady? I think we're both on the same page is probably not a good thing to do.

01:35:31:22 - 01:35:41:11
Alexander De Fina
So I'm asking you a question. Is it okay? What I'm really trying to explore is to navigate my own emotions, thoughts, perspectives.

01:35:41:13 - 01:36:08:09
Itamar Marani
That could be possibility. What could also be a possibility for Greg is that he's asking permission. He could be like, just be very, very blunt. He could be seeing me as somebody who's an authority in this field and he's asking in a way for permission. He's like, Oh, if Itamar says it's okay for me to just, like, enjoy life, then I guess that's okay, because he's someone that I see as an elite performers, coaches, lovely performers.

01:36:08:11 - 01:36:21:20
Itamar Marani
I think I'm supposed to be an elite performer, but if he tells me it's okay, then I've permission to. Oh, fuck, I don't need to do that. A lot of the questions that we ask are just we're asking for permission.

01:36:21:22 - 01:36:41:16
Alexander De Fina
After you give that permission. Yes. Yes, Dave, It's okay. That's great. It's okay. Does that really where the coaching role starts was like, okay, Itamar To give permission is one thing, but helping Greg give Greg permission is where the real work is.

01:36:41:18 - 01:37:03:08
Itamar Marani
Yes or no. Sometimes it's always required, like what I talked about example earlier. Sometimes these entrepreneurs will have a conversation with their father and be like, Hey, this is how much we're right now. I feel a bit uncomfortable with it because like you and Mom always were trying to be very humble, like how you brought us up. But now I'm succeeding so much and just to hear their father say, Oh, I think it's awesome what you're doing.

01:37:03:08 - 01:37:19:05
Itamar Marani
I keep doing it. If there's any way I could support you like I love you. It's amazing. I'm so proud of you. They usually shed a tear or two and. Then just that permission freeze them again. Sometimes that's the only work that's required is to give yourself by having somebody else, whatever it is. That sense of permission.

01:37:19:07 - 01:37:57:18
Alexander De Fina
Awesome. That's great. Answer a few. Okay. Steve's question, It seems that problems or personal issues are never fixed but reemerge in different ways. For example, I have overcome apathy and fear, at least temporarily. Temporarily to have some success in ultramarathons, school and business. However, the same problems come back in a different guise, making me think that I never really change fundamentally the covered up fear with bravado or apathy with a false false enthusiasm.

01:37:57:20 - 01:37:59:21
Alexander De Fina
What say you?

01:37:59:23 - 01:38:23:10
Itamar Marani
I think this is what I talked about, how Shane Parrish's model about the three week, three day, three week, three month, three year problem. So here's the example. If I have a hesitation around doing something in school or around schoolwork and I say, okay, this is my issue here, and then I'm aware of that, become that specific issue of why am I not doing this project?

01:38:23:12 - 01:38:40:19
Itamar Marani
Figure out a way to do this project. Great, you solve that, but then it's going to come up a way in new way down the road in dealing with something else. It's a new business you're entering, But if you got to the root cause of it and really drill down like what is going on with this project that in school why I'm having resistance to do it was my fear here.

01:38:40:19 - 01:39:00:00
Itamar Marani
If it doesn't go well, whatever it may be, what is my fear? If I do things that don't go well, what will that mean about me? Will that mean about my life? And if you can get down to that root level of it and chop it up, basically, that's when it doesn't affect you elsewhere as well. And I think that's the approach.

01:39:00:00 - 01:39:22:02
Itamar Marani
A lot of people saw this sorry, that's a approach a lot of people take in business to think, how can we get to the root of this issue so it doesn't happen again, But they don't take into themselves personally saying, what's the root of my issues? Yes, how can I drill down into that so it doesn't pop up in a different way a couple years down the road and like Steve, that's probably what's going on.

01:39:22:05 - 01:39:40:12
Itamar Marani
You probably saw these things in a very surface level way that helps you just move past that specific thing. But you didn't down to the root of why is this thing affecting me in such a way? Because then when something else came like in a different shape, but same kind of deal, it affected you again and that's what you got to do.

01:39:40:12 - 01:39:53:18
Itamar Marani
You got to get to the root of what's causing you to feel these ways that cause you that resistance from doing these specific things and really uproot that, because that is going to have a ripple effect everywhere else in life.

01:39:53:20 - 01:40:25:21
Alexander De Fina
How frequently do you see that in the entrepreneurial community? Is there a trend and I start with this question with, say, trauma, is there a trend that for whatever reason they can have, they can ride a rollercoaster of business, have some winds, hassles, different things in different areas. But I think that that is something affecting them, which is acting as a constraint in their growth or is affecting them as an emotional state.

01:40:25:23 - 01:40:38:15
Alexander De Fina
Did it at some level kind of boils down to some kind of deep trauma or bad perspective which needs to be identified, broken, overcome?

01:40:38:17 - 01:40:54:18
Itamar Marani
I think it's very common. I think people also kind of know it, but they just think it's untreatable. Here's what I mean by that. So again, in the past, like, oh, have to go on ayahuasca trip. I have to go through a decade of therapy. We're just going to talk about this problem. I don't want to do any of those.

01:40:54:20 - 01:41:12:11
Itamar Marani
I don't want to sit in a feeling circle with a single. These things just don't work. So this is just something that's it's just it's a problem. That is something I have to deal with. Like if I live in London, it rains outside in the summer. There's something I have to deal with and people just accept that. So they accept that is okay.

01:41:12:15 - 01:41:32:20
Itamar Marani
I need to learn other coping mechanisms. Maybe when this pops up again and think again. That's what I'm very proud of what we're doing here. I think we're really trying to redefine mindset and say, you can actually get all these things and cover them and then get them out of the way very fast by following this systematic process.

01:41:32:22 - 01:41:48:16
Itamar Marani
And a lot of the people that I interact with the conference did, I didn't know I thought this was something I had to deal with. No, you don't. You don't have to waste ten years of your life just staring at your past. Yes, I think that's the big issue. People Think this is something they have to accept. It's a part of business.

01:41:48:18 - 01:42:02:17
Itamar Marani
It's a part of life. You just got to be a bit confused. Your emotions are going to jolt you all over the place. You're going to procrastinate. You're going to feel overwhelmed. You're going to feel this fatigue because you're not doing the right things. That's just a part of a deal with it. Toughen up, be a man, accept That's part of it.

01:42:02:18 - 01:42:16:22
Itamar Marani
And I think that's also where we're trying to change things. So we do this like a person, like very pinpoint down to the root of it, uproot it, remove it. You go on your way. I think most people think it's not available. It's not available to them.

01:42:17:00 - 01:42:43:22
Alexander De Fina
I agree. I think that in the sort of self-development ecosystem, there's certain philosophies which lean towards, let's just spend all of our life looking at a revision mirror and sort of unpacking and sort of that talking about trauma and some addictions or abuse of whatever, whatever happened in the past or there's just be pragmatic and just deal with the fact you are this way.

01:42:43:22 - 01:43:09:00
Alexander De Fina
Like some of those summary statements that we talked about. So the earlier I think where you offer unique value, which is why it takes so much value for both the arena and elite, is it there might be a tactical issue or a certain topic we're focusing on, but for me personally, it's all more or less boiled down to the same things, which is that you've been great.

01:43:09:00 - 01:43:32:03
Alexander De Fina
It helped me ask better questions to get closer to the truth. So as an example perfectionism, you know, I strive to sort of overengineered things and so on, and you help me realize that it's not actually perfectionism. It's it's, it's fear of the consequences of mistakes. It's not just a fear of mistakes. It's the consequences of mistakes. And so, you know.

01:43:32:07 - 01:43:37:05
Itamar Marani
This is but on the depth of, like what you mean about you life.

01:43:37:07 - 01:44:05:08
Alexander De Fina
Yeah. And I mean, I think I could go on and on, but the point is that only through consistent work and having someone outside of yourself able to be prompted in a way to help get closer and closer to the real truth and the quality of the, I think, a bit tempered by the quality of the questions. And we are simply incapable of asking ourselves those questions because limited by our own perspectives and our own experiences.

01:44:05:10 - 01:44:29:08
Alexander De Fina
So, you know, you can't have a novel approach when you're going to have to hold a monopoly on the way you do things. And I think that's a huge benefit to me as a participant in both the arena and Elite is a frequent, high level ability to, ask questions and sort of lead back to what's what the actual constraints holding me back.

01:44:29:10 - 01:44:39:11
Alexander De Fina
First of all, let's be clear about what we want. Get that clarity, what's holding me back. And often it's many dimensions deeper than what I would otherwise offer as a reason.

01:44:39:12 - 01:45:05:12
Itamar Marani
Yeah, I appreciate that. First, I've been happy to hear that man. I'll say this to kind of summarize this, this is not like it fails to differentiate. This is not self-deprecating humor, but I do recognize the fortunate spot that I am in because of my background and because of how I look, both like my natural jawline and the fact that I work out every day for the past 20 or so years.

01:45:05:14 - 01:45:26:02
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And that that gives people that permission to listen to me about willing to listen to someone like me talk about these things. Like John was a second client I ever had, you know, when I was in there. And I remember him saying like when Itamar started telling me I need to understand my emotions, I was like, What?

01:45:26:06 - 01:45:44:19
Itamar Marani
But then when I was like, Oh, if Itamar is talking about it, maybe it's okay. And I recognize that maybe that could be my unique place to add value. That because of what I've gone through in life, that I'm not a soft guy with a man, but that if I talk about this stuff, that we do have emotions that we do need to deal with.

01:45:44:21 - 01:46:13:07
Itamar Marani
People can say, okay, he's kind of like me. He has a strong individual in him. Talking about his emotions doesn't make him a weak one. So maybe if I do the same, I can have the same impact for me, where my mentor from the Psychology of Homicide is talking about the weakness paradox that if we can expose a weakness in the right environment, we have the ability to strengthen it, and other times we just think our emotions are just a sign that we're weak.

01:46:13:09 - 01:46:32:22
Itamar Marani
But the reality like they do, weaken our ability to be logical. But if we can expose them in the right place and work on them and understand how they can't control us, that's when we can really powerful become very logical, very strategic and achieve what we want. Life. And I feel like I don't know what's going on.

01:46:33:00 - 01:46:53:10
Alexander De Fina
I think there's a character definition which is not accurate for you, which I've been more guilty of than anyone else of bestowing upon you, which is that, you know, anybody has no emotions. Atim As a robot to the point. Claire, my wife, which you know well for the audience, you know, in our conversations with your name pops up or something we'd be discussing.

01:46:53:10 - 01:47:16:04
Alexander De Fina
She said, Yeah, well, Atim as a robot, she's regurgitating what I've said in the past, but I'll always correct it. No, he's not. He has emotions like everyone else. Maybe his emotional vacillations are a little bit less. That's maybe a product of Danny upbringing and and self work. What I think is different about you so that you don't have emotions.

01:47:16:04 - 01:47:39:09
Alexander De Fina
Of course you do. Yeah. I think it might be. Correct me if my assistant's wrong. What you don't do is that you don't allow those emotions to be permanent constraints and you don't give in to the emotion. So it's not that I this feels bad, therefore I'm just going to do it. No, this feels bad. I'm going to do the thing I need to do despite not feeling confident or whatever.

01:47:39:11 - 01:48:17:16
Alexander De Fina
And you also don't take those emotional states as being these personal, like these permanent afflictions that you must deal with so that we can overcome this and move forwards. It's optional to hang on to that, you know, trauma or baggage. And I think that's really, really helpful because it's an uncommon characteristic. It's what helps you provide much value to other people and to that which I would definitely encourage other entrepreneurs who are struggling with other roadblocks or constraints on their business to to to engage with the provided massive value to me and to whatever just in the groups.

01:48:17:18 - 01:48:32:05
Alexander De Fina
So it's really helpful for the future to know that, you know, the robot, that you feel feelings, you just don't give in to those feelings and you work through them in a very, very efficient way.

01:48:32:07 - 01:48:49:14
Itamar Marani
And I think, first of all, I do think I'm less on their motive spectrum than most otherwise. I think if that wasn't true, it'd be very difficult for me to do what I do to be able to. Now, with that said, I think the reason I'm also doing this because I got I would keep hitting so many was I had an innate desire to be excellent.

01:48:49:14 - 01:49:06:17
Itamar Marani
I always wanted to go for the big things with the Special Forces playing basketball, kid jujitsu, whatever it may be. And I speak about this openly that I would hit limitations or just get in my own head and I would I would fail in the big moments. And because I was like, I still want to be great, I just I had to figure this thing out.

01:49:06:21 - 01:49:22:22
Itamar Marani
I would have preferred if I didn't have to, you know, I mean, if like, if this was a non-issue, that have been much easier, much simpler as recognize, you know, this is just the part of the equation that I couldn't ignore. And from what I'm seeing, a lot of people, even if they, quote unquote, can ignore it, they'll see much better results if they don't.

01:49:23:00 - 01:49:25:09
Itamar Marani
And that's what it is.

01:49:25:11 - 01:49:42:08
Alexander De Fina
Men. Well, that's the end of our questions. Apart from this, I take it back we have one more question, which is what are your favorite slash most impactful books? So maybe what do you most favorite books and of course the most impactful.

01:49:42:10 - 01:50:05:01
Itamar Marani
So I'll do like a quick one I did last time Principles by Ray Dalio was really impactful. I remember I remember the middle of the workout. I was listening to an audible and he said that something along the lines of that accepting your weaknesses isn't the same as surrendering to them. It's the first step in overcoming them. I'm like, Oh, that had deep.

01:50:05:03 - 01:50:19:17
Itamar Marani
Yeah, because it was such a higher level of thought than just push through or whatever you got to push through. It was a much more strategic approach. So if you have a weakness, let's say an external one on your team that hire around it, don't just feel like I have to do this. That's the way to approach it.

01:50:19:19 - 01:50:38:21
Itamar Marani
And also accepting that you have like I had some emotional stuff doesn't mean that I'm if I accept that this is what is right now means that I'm surrendering to it. This means I accept this is not what it is right now, so therefore I can start working on it. And for me that was a big epiphany. And that's a book that I revisit probably once a year.

01:50:38:23 - 01:50:58:14
Itamar Marani
And the one that I read more recently, The Psychology of Money. And my biggest lesson from that, I don't know if you said this directly in the book, but basically what I took away was that when you stretched yourself too thin in life, you make stupid decisions because you feel desperate. And he said that about finances. But I think it just goes to everywhere in life.

01:50:58:14 - 01:51:20:02
Itamar Marani
It is such a valuable one. The the big one. This is something that this is a book that we received as a present when we graduated the Undercover Agent Course and the agency is Gates of Fire. So Gates of fires, basically the story, if you ever saw the movie 300, it's the real story behind it. And it's a much, much deeper story.

01:51:20:02 - 01:51:49:12
Itamar Marani
It's not just, you know, action war that it up, but it talks a lot about the way we were given it was this is how we believe the warrior ethos should be. And it absolutely talks about toughness and what's required and the hard things that need to get done. But what was also for me, a very interesting thing to see, whether they talked about how after the hard things, you still have to make peace with who you are.

01:51:49:14 - 01:52:18:06
Itamar Marani
There is you're a different version of yourself in different arenas. I think in that book they talk about how a man each had a thing. They called it a stick. Before you go into combat breakfast stick and you leave it basically so they can recognize afterwards who came back and who didn't when you complete your story. But they were saying that when you break that off, you also break off the more nice human version of yourself, all the part that knows loving the most tenderness, the most care, empathy, all that.

01:52:18:06 - 01:52:42:19
Itamar Marani
And you leave that behind when you go to war. But a big part of the symbolism is that when you come back from war, you attach it again. And for me, that was a big lesson as far as recognizing I need to show up in different ways in different parts of my life and being able to understand that and have the whereabout to say, I'm not just going to be this person, I'm just the warrior or whatever it may be, but this is where I am in this arena.

01:52:42:19 - 01:52:53:06
Itamar Marani
This is why I'm in this arena. And to be able to make those kind of changes. For me, that was very, very impactful as a way to think about things.

01:52:53:08 - 01:53:02:13
Alexander De Fina
So those, those three is recap principles, but right down here that accepting weaknesses is not the same as surrendering to them. Think that's really powerful.

01:53:02:14 - 01:53:04:09
Itamar Marani
It's the first step in overcoming them.

01:53:04:11 - 01:53:31:15
Alexander De Fina
Yeah. Yeah. Principles of money that you're basically when you're stretched thin, just when you're most likely to make dumb decisions. Yes. People who are welfare by lottery tickets and go to the casino. So if we're in business and we're about to make a big Hail Mary decision, this this could be make or break. And I'm also super risky and I'm also stretched really thin right now.

01:53:31:17 - 01:53:53:19
Alexander De Fina
Okay. Is there a correlation between those two things that are more likely to say yes to the Hail Mary because I'm stretched so thin? And Gates, as far as recognizing that we have different parts of our personality, different versions of ourselves and that it's okay to step into those in various arenas of loss we find ourselves.

01:53:53:21 - 01:54:10:06
Itamar Marani
I would say it's necessary to be at your best if you're trying to go to war and trying to be warm and kind at the same time, it's not going to work. So it's like it's not that it's it's okay. I think it's necessary to understand where are you right now? What's part of you are you putting out?

01:54:10:08 - 01:54:15:13
Alexander De Fina
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool.

01:54:15:15 - 01:54:31:07
Itamar Marani
All right, so we wrap that one. That was, I think, the longest podcast we ever did by far. Yeah. So is there. Thank you for sticking on, Alex. I hope this was valuable for you guys. It was a unique thing we're doing. Just for episode 50 Next week we'll be back to our regular podcast, Break down case studies giving you actionable tactics.

01:54:31:09 - 01:54:51:06
Itamar Marani
This entrepreneur was here, now they're there and I set aside from that, if you enjoy the pod and you know anybody that could get value from it, like, you know, another entrepreneur who's ambitious is driven but is getting in their own way and you could share that with them. We greatly appreciate it from that. Thank you, Alex. And everybody, have a great rest of your day, I guess.

01:54:51:08 - 01:54:51:16
Alexander De Fina
By.