“If you’re just having all these expectations of things that you can’t control, you can’t have an agreement about or you can’t set a standard about, you’ll just get frustrated all the time.”
Many think that having high expectations of everyone shows respect and kindness. In reality, unrealistic expectations create frustration and anger, making us treat others worse. This episode breaks down how lowering expectations in specific areas can help us become calmer and more effective leaders.
Key Topics:
- The difference between standards/agreements vs. expectations
- Framework for handling frustration
- Why believing that “everyone is amazing” sets us up for constant disappointment
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00:00:00:01 - 00:00:05:13
Itamar Marani
If you can't create a standard or an agreement, holding an expectation is going to set you up for frustration.
00:00:05:15 - 00:00:12:00
Alex De Fina
Unmet expectations are a signal that there is a lack of mutually agreed standards.
00:00:12:02 - 00:00:29:01
Itamar Marani
There's really three ways to deal with this. I remember when I was about ten years old, we were on the phone with an individual and it was very clear to me, even as a ten year old, that the person we were on the phone with was very incompetent. So I looked at my dad and jokingly said, like being a bit of a smartass.
00:00:29:03 - 00:00:49:20
Itamar Marani
"This guy is not very bright, huh?"
And my dad is very calmly looking and he's like, "Itamar, if he was supposed to be a professor at Harvard, he would be a professor at Harvard. He wouldn't be on the phone with us, right?"
So let's kind of put this back. I knew the many people that angry in your life. How much of it do you really think is about expectations versus anything else?
00:00:49:22 - 00:01:11:06
Itamar Marani
Have you ever felt like you're about to lose your mind because someone just isn't getting it? Maybe it's a staff member, your partner or the guy? The DMV. He looks at you like you just spoke in an alien language. And no matter how much meditation, breathwork or therapy you've done, the frustration still hits like a freight train. So I got a great question from someone struggling with this exact issue.
00:01:11:06 - 00:01:40:02
Itamar Marani
They've done all the self work, the meditation, the breathwork, the gratitude list, therapy, all of it. But they still find themselves wanting to take a flamethrower to people when there's certain situations where there's sheer incompetence. So if you can relate to that, this episode is going to be for you. Today. I'm going to share a very unconventional approach that might sound a bit unkind at first, but paradoxically, it can help you, and it's helped me become much more patient and actually more kind.
00:01:40:04 - 00:02:02:01
Itamar Marani
So we're going to be talking about acceptance, but not in the soft, fluffy, just be at peace kind of way. But in a real practical way that actually moves frustration in the moment and allows you to actually be more compassionate, more kind, and not get as agitated. So let's dive in. Welcome to the podcast. First off, before we get started, any thoughts on this subject?
00:02:02:03 - 00:02:03:21
Itamar Marani
Thank you, Mark, to be here.
00:02:03:23 - 00:02:08:08
Alex De Fina
I have a lot of problems with a lot of people. So this one, let's find out.
00:02:08:08 - 00:02:28:17
Itamar Marani
Why goes out. I'll share a story that got to get us started where I really learned this. So I remember when I was about ten years old, we lived in the States and we went on a road trip and this was before, you know, Booking.com and all that. And you had to call triple A in order to help you book a hotel wherever you were going.
00:02:28:19 - 00:02:48:07
Itamar Marani
And my father, who was a very accomplished individual and also a very high performer with a lot of high demands, like in his business and his work. He was also a colonel in the Army. We were on the phone with this individual, and it was very clear to me, even as a ten year old, that the person we were on the phone with was very incompetent.
00:02:48:09 - 00:03:06:12
Itamar Marani
He was just not getting it. He was messing things up. And something that should have been simple itself was booking a hotel. And so I looked at my dad and jokingly said, like being a bit of a smart ass. This guy is not very bright. And my dad is very calmly looking and he's looking to Mark. If he were supposed to be a professor at Harvard, he'd be a professor at Harvard.
00:03:06:18 - 00:03:26:10
Itamar Marani
He wouldn't be on the phone with us right now. And to a lot of people, that might sound like something very cruel to say or like he's being mean or condescending. But in reality, when I observed it, that kind of frame allowed my father to remain calm and actually be very courteous with his individual and very nice to him.
00:03:26:15 - 00:03:48:01
Itamar Marani
Instead of getting frustrated and annoyed and perhaps rude. And what he stuck with me, what he said, like it really stuck with me. The fact that something is amiss, accepting that this is where this person is supposed to be, it relieves a lot of the things that are noises about them. And I know it's not the most nice thing to say these days.
00:03:48:05 - 00:04:22:02
Itamar Marani
You're supposed to see everybody, you know, for their limitless potential. Everyone's amazing. They should be amazing. But in some way, having that kind of thought pattern, like everybody should be amazing is just going to create frustration because not everyone is amazing. And that's the reality of it. Like 50% of the people are the bottom 50%, so to speak, and us accepting that and just being able say, you know what, this guy is doing, whatever he's doing with what he's capable of doing, the local barista, the whatever it may be by diffusing that expectation, actually allows us to be nicer.
00:04:22:04 - 00:04:46:05
Itamar Marani
From what I've experienced, and that's what I want to talk about today, about how a lot of times people think, Oh, you just need more breathwork, you need more meditation, needed more therapy, and sometimes we've already done that. It's not about us being able to react better to the situation. It's about changing how we view the situation because of our expectation from.
00:04:46:07 - 00:04:49:01
Alex De Fina
Awesome looking forward. So to.
00:04:49:03 - 00:05:06:13
Itamar Marani
Cope. So this might not be a very long part. We'll see how it goes. But basically I think this is the biggest thing, that the more we can have realistic expectations and some need we have for all the things that help us calm down. Like the breathwork, the visualizing, I'm at the end of my life, I will actually care about this or not.
00:05:06:15 - 00:05:30:13
Itamar Marani
It's like all those things are basically answers to what do you do after? Let's say like lower level you the emotional part of you already starts popping off. But again, that's always less effective than saying, how can I not? How can I avoid having lower level them even pop off? And again, the biggest way to do that is, is by recalibrating your expectation like that employee that you have.
00:05:30:15 - 00:05:55:18
Itamar Marani
He's not supposed to be at your level. He's not supposed to have it as entrepreneurial mind as you or whatever it may be. Otherwise, he might not be your employee, he might be your competitor. That barista might not know even if he gets your or this was the guy's example, even if he gets the order wrong. The third or fourth time that you've been to that same coffee shop, like if you can go with the expectation that you know what most likely the not, they're going to get my order wrong.
00:05:55:19 - 00:06:18:06
Itamar Marani
Like life is still pretty good. Aside from that, instead of saying like, if they don't get my coffee wrong, they should get my coffee or what, whatever. Being getting that frustrated, you can make a big difference. So let's kind of put this back. I knew the many people that angry in your life. How much of it do you really think is about expectations versus anything else?
00:06:18:08 - 00:06:51:19
Alex De Fina
All of it. All of it is my expectation. Get the barista up. How that barista should have served me. It's like the tension of an employee or business partner. All of it stems from me having an expectation, the individual not acting in alignment with my expectation and is set to conflict with reality. The friction with reality is where the frustration or or negative emotions yeah, arise from.
00:06:51:21 - 00:07:28:05
Itamar Marani
Cool. So this is the point I want to get into. We all like, I think anyone who's done enough kind of let's call it self-help knows the dangers of having too many different desires to those desires. Don't get mad. Then you get frustrated. Expectations are just desires of how you want things to be. Now, that's why I think it's very important to choose who we have expectations from and like the level that, again, the random person, the random barista or the random person that's, you know, like you're calling this like a support line or whatever it may be.
00:07:28:06 - 00:07:50:06
Itamar Marani
Like you should go in there with very, very low expectations. Now, there are some places like over the next answer, the next question that a lot of people are going to ask. So like, what about important people in my life, like the employees or the spouse or whatever it may be? And they're it's you really got to calibrate your expectations and see sometimes the situation is amendable so that it's not.
00:07:50:08 - 00:08:13:17
Itamar Marani
And there's really the way I look at it, three ways to deal with it. And it's obviously not my perspective. It's that many, many Greek people before me, you can change it, leave it or accept it. It's not like you can change the situation, whether it's a train, your staff better to leave to like optimize your system, whatever it may be, or you can leave it.
00:08:13:19 - 00:08:35:03
Itamar Marani
You can fire the person, You can never turn to the restaurant, you can break up that relationship, whatever it may be, or you can accept it and recalibrate your expectations to reality. Now, where I think the nuance in this is, is that it's not a black and white. Now, I see this in relationships, whether it's with employees or with significant others.
00:08:35:03 - 00:08:58:00
Itamar Marani
A lot is that they don't do one thing well and that one expectation of them causes you to get really agitated. And that causes people to say, paint the entire picture black or white, so to speak, says and this is just this one vertical of how they do certain thing. I can't accept it, so I should just leave it to speak.
00:08:58:02 - 00:09:02:15
Itamar Marani
So first off, am I making sense with this is we're putting a couple of principles together here.
00:09:02:17 - 00:09:38:06
Alex De Fina
Yeah, I definitely feel that that pendulum swing of feeling something is not working and giving up on it is is likely a result of is it emotional reaction to the mission not being completed, but the expectations of other people fulfilling certain functions? I'd love to hear your perspective on how we correctly should calibrate people's relationships to also help.
00:09:38:08 - 00:09:51:03
Alex De Fina
Do you have any tools to identify a specific function so that we can have more accurate expectations and avoid all the unnecessary add ons?
00:09:51:05 - 00:10:08:03
Itamar Marani
So I'll reframe that in a bit of a different tell me if this is hitting, basically, how can we know if one thing that causes us and exurban amount of frustration is worth tearing the relationship over? Is that correct?
00:10:08:05 - 00:10:14:09
Alex De Fina
In a close relationship, yeah. But even just in a single question too.
00:10:14:11 - 00:10:17:07
Itamar Marani
What's an example of a surface level relationship?
00:10:17:09 - 00:10:19:01
Alex De Fina
The barista analogy.
00:10:19:03 - 00:10:23:16
Itamar Marani
I start honestly, I think with those the simplest way to go about it is have low expectations.
00:10:23:18 - 00:10:24:06
Alex De Fina
Yes.
00:10:24:07 - 00:10:44:15
Itamar Marani
So to try to clarify, I think we we've both lived in third world countries where you'll say exactly what you need and it will not come like that. And you usually we've always also I'm sure you've seen this there's the people they are really frustrated, angry about that. And then there's the people that have lived there for like 20 years and they're like, Oh, this is just what it is now.
00:10:44:17 - 00:11:02:04
Itamar Marani
What's natural is for a lot of like the high performers to be like, I don't want to accept that. That's not okay for me. I don't want to accept mediocrity in my life. And I think that's where things can get a bit challenging because that says that everything has to be perfect all the time and that's going to waste a lot of energy where it's not needed.
00:11:02:06 - 00:11:18:13
Itamar Marani
That's on a macro level, like with the baristas, have an expectation that they're going to mess up your food or something. That's just what it is. So this doesn't this shouldn't be the thing that shifts you out of like you're living a great life and this guy has a great life. It's built a very successful business, has a great life, great individual.
00:11:18:15 - 00:11:40:18
Itamar Marani
It's just about a car in most cases. Where is it worth for me to be annoyed and when is it not? If it's a key employee and they're doing the important thing they're supposed to be doing correctly? I absolutely cannot accept that. If it's my spouse, let's call it someone's, there's infidelity or something really big. You cannot accept that if it's the way they leave their coffee mug on the table.
00:11:40:19 - 00:12:07:23
Itamar Marani
Is this really worth having an expectation that it shouldn't be like this? Or is it the employee once forgetting to fill out a certain form that doesn't actually matter. It's just accepting that a little bit of human error here and there. And I think it's all about us modulating what's important to us and what's not. And again, like if you go to a fast food restaurant expecting Michelin service, like whose fault is it that you're disappointed?
00:12:08:00 - 00:12:33:22
Itamar Marani
It's kind of that. And I think the more we can look at that and the narrower we can go with that with specific people that are important to us, but also recognize where am I willing to accept having low expectations of them in this specific vertical? It can often relieve a lot of pressure and a lot of the tension in those, again, personal or professional relationships.
00:12:34:00 - 00:12:59:02
Alex De Fina
One way I've tried to I know that you've ruffled some feathers in the past was communicating this this concept to people. And I've I've even taken exception to some sound bites that you should at times only upon reflection, hasn't made sense in a fully understood it. I think another way to view it is, rather than say low expectations would be mutual expectation, there's a there's a neutral expectation.
00:12:59:02 - 00:13:23:17
Alex De Fina
So for Bristow, I'm expecting, based understand my order. If I say a bottle of Americano that you can with some degree of consistency, whatever product comes out of the toilet is relative to what I ordered. And then that whole process happens within a reasonable timeframe. That would be a mutual expectation. If I'm expecting them to be charismatic.
00:13:23:19 - 00:13:29:12
Itamar Marani
Why do you feel uncomfortable saying I should have a low expectation? I can tell you this, that's not okay.
00:13:29:13 - 00:13:34:10
Alex De Fina
Because I think that the low expectations and negative stuff, I think if I was doing a.
00:13:34:12 - 00:14:09:21
Itamar Marani
Why again, but I get like why is that not okay this headache from some of these people again like I'll give a very personal example so my wife is not Israeli when the war when October 7th happened, she did not like when I when I speak about this from like an outsider perspective, shockingly, the person who's not Israeli didn't deal with the stress of the war in coming as well as the guy who was in special operations for ten years know, I mean, shockingly, if my at the moment, my expectation was that she should like, this is just what it is, is we're going to have to do this.
00:14:09:21 - 00:14:37:11
Itamar Marani
How we move forward and we're just going to act like robots right now because it's war and this is what we need to do. That was an unrealistic expectation, honestly, to put on anybody that doesn't have that level of training. And even for me, I also had my emotional hiccups, but I put that expectation on her. I should have had a more, whether you want to call it realistic or lower expectation, like someone who doesn't have that kind of background, they're probably not going to react the same way to this situation.
00:14:37:13 - 00:15:03:15
Itamar Marani
By me not having that more realistic, lower expectation of how they're going to react. It stopped me from actually being more empathetic and more kind to them, to her. And it wasn't. It created a negative outcome. Like if I genuinely believe that from the get go when that happened a bit, okay, I need to have a lower expectation for how she's going to react to this than how I would anticipate me reacting to this.
00:15:03:15 - 00:15:22:12
Itamar Marani
For example, it would have allowed for me to be a kinder husband, a better husband to her, and in turn she would have actually been able to be more supportive to me. But it was because that specific vertical and that expectation, I needed to have lower expectations.
00:15:22:14 - 00:16:01:01
Alex De Fina
In a business setting. Do you think that expectations compensate for clear standards that can be measured through through math or through like both the high dollar and expectations is might be a signal? So we had quite a lot of expectations on a subordinate, but no clear KPI that I could refer to a dashboard or what somehow down the road, whether it be a reflection, you don't get a whole bunch of loosey goosey expectations that no clear definition of performance.
00:16:01:03 - 00:16:23:14
Itamar Marani
Yeah, and again, it kind of bleeds into the difference between an expectation and agreement. And expectations are something that you think how people should act and agreements and that you communicate clearly. They've communicated back to the understanding you're all on board. Now, again, if it's a kind of person in your life or like an employee or you have these key agreements and they're not fulfilling it, that's a problem.
00:16:23:16 - 00:16:51:03
Itamar Marani
If it's just somebody random that you have an expectation or even an expectation, let's say, of that employee, but that you haven't communicated if you want to take full responsibility of your life, that's not that. So again, in the situations where you're it's not like you're going to have an agreement with the local barista, like, hey, can we agree that if I do this, you're going to make the extra effort, then make sure it's 100% okay or whatever.
00:16:51:03 - 00:17:14:11
Itamar Marani
And that's where it's just not worth having these expectations. I think it's just going to set you up for frustration. I think that's where we're setting the whole change it, leave it or accept it. If it's worth having an agreement, change the situation, talk about it, train them better, have this agreement, whatever it may be. If it's just a non negotiable and leave it or if it's just one part of that employee that you're saying this is probably not going to change.
00:17:14:11 - 00:17:32:09
Itamar Marani
This is one of their innate traits. They're not as a creative thinker as they want. They're phenomenal linear thinker, but they're not as good as a creative thinker. But you know what? They're still phenomenal job. This is where you have to lower that expectation is accept that this is what it is if it's still serving you, but it is having a more realistic perspective on this.
00:17:32:09 - 00:17:42:00
Itamar Marani
And from some people I need to expect less in some verticals allows you to see them for actually for what they're really good at and in a way that allows you to be kinder, nicer.
00:17:42:02 - 00:18:09:14
Alex De Fina
Paradoxically in your former life. Did you have a clear way to separate between what's a standard and what's an expectation? So I would I must say, a standard of these fitness standards, because if you can't do these things or shooting standards or whatever, because the consequences of not being at or above these standards is extreme. So this standards, I'm also expecting that you're a team player.
00:18:09:14 - 00:18:19:07
Alex De Fina
I'm expecting that you take selective on topics. Do you have an ability or a privacy framework of what's the standard, what's next?
00:18:19:09 - 00:18:38:03
Itamar Marani
It's interesting because like when I'm really thinking back to there are no expectations, there are just clear standards and there wasn't that like, okay, it's like this is everything you're supposed to do and this is a nice to have this what we need from you and this is what it is like even the the softer parts of the setting and not not being an asshole.
00:18:38:05 - 00:18:57:07
Itamar Marani
There were a few I don't know the term in English, but there were tests that basically everybody would rank the other people on the team and sociometric exam I think it's called. And like if your score was the lowest or a number, that's not of it. Everything was standards. There were no unwritten expectations of you.
00:18:57:09 - 00:19:36:22
Alex De Fina
Yeah, I think that's why I've been I've always had a fascination with, with military culture as a person. Is that any military experience? I've had a long track record of friction with the employees and businesses because I've I've put a lot of expectations on them. Only through hindsight I was able to realize what it was like at the time, and I've had a lot less of that as I've matured because I realized what lesson expectations and just very, very clear standards to put these things, these screws, these holes of this way at this time, always and forever.
00:19:37:00 - 00:20:04:20
Alex De Fina
If you do that, I don't really need to expect much because you would be now serving the function of that machine, whereas previous that we would get to do those same things, but also want to innovate and also think about how to do the same thing better or faster, or lumping a whole bunch of unnecessary expectations onto the functions other than just defining this function through three standards and just making sure that people actually achieve those standards.
00:20:04:22 - 00:20:32:03
Itamar Marani
And so kind of summarize what I'm hearing from you as a good kind of rule for life is that if you can't create a standard or an agreement holding expectations, it's going to set your frustration. And I think that's the big takeaway and that's what I was trying to say to that guys, through this, if you're just having all these expectations of things that you can't control, you can't have an agreement about or you can set a standard about, you just get frustrated all the time.
00:20:32:05 - 00:20:54:00
Itamar Marani
That's one to also accept where some things are. If you're going to accept preemptively in these areas, this person is going to have lower output than what I would like for it to be. And I can recalibrate my expectation to that. I'm actually probably going to be able to be much nicer to them and I'm actually going to be kinder to them than just believing, Oh, they should be amazing.
00:20:54:00 - 00:21:16:05
Itamar Marani
They can be the best ever at everything. And I know this whole topic is a bit, you know, controversial or whatever you want to call it, because we're not just saying, hey, believe in everybody for all they have. Like everybody should be amazing. You should never, ever think less of anybody in any which way. But the reality is, is this thinking everybody's amazing creates an unrealistic expectation.
00:21:16:06 - 00:21:25:08
Itamar Marani
A lot of people and I think if we can actually have more realistically, we can be better towards others.
00:21:25:10 - 00:22:11:17
Alex De Fina
1% I've found that in business, the more I focused on standards rather than expectations, I've also avoided pretty well people involved roles because if I was incapable of defining the standards specific function, it made me realize that either I was under resourced or I had the wrong person to do something else wrong. So any time that I've been unable to identify standards and to have the ability to have almost anything regular basis to help me realize that the wrong person, the role functions, role, the function is not necessary at all, or I'm just I'm just poorly equipped to actually focus.
00:22:11:18 - 00:22:13:13
Alex De Fina
Now.
00:22:13:15 - 00:22:41:19
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And so here's kind of how I would wrap this up. So we don't just keep kind of diving into the things we know anything about. Like first off, just identify your known frustration triggers. So take a moment and preemptively Oscar self. Where is my spouse perhaps likely to frustrate me? Where are my employees most likely to frustrate me or were to certain people in my environment constantly push my buttons, whether it's the barista, the person that puts you on hold, whatever it is.
00:22:41:21 - 00:23:02:12
Itamar Marani
That anticipation just in and of itself, if you do nothing else, is very powerful. Because if you can basically prepare for getting punched in the gut, you'll be better off that. If it caught you off guard. That's just number one, even if you don't do anything else. Now, beyond that, you have a choice Once you recognize these are the things that frustrated me and again, it's that change it.
00:23:02:17 - 00:23:25:12
Itamar Marani
And to go back to what, Alex, you were saying, so how can you set in place a standard or an agreement if you can do that by there, you can change it. Amazing. Take action on it. If you're saying I can't change it and this is just a constant energy drain and this is just it's not worth the tradeoff of what is causing me.
00:23:25:12 - 00:23:53:10
Itamar Marani
It's just getting me so angry to leave it. Don't go to that coffee shop. If it's an employee that just needs to not be there anymore, you need to not be there anymore. Same thing with perhaps significant other. But if you're saying, you know what, there's this fault, but still on the overall level, it's worth it, then just accept that you can have a lower expectation around that if it's not possible to fix it and you don't want to leave it, lower your expectations.
00:23:53:12 - 00:24:14:13
Itamar Marani
And if you can just have that more realistic perspective on it, all of a sudden you find that things frustrate you less, you get less angry and you're able to be nicer to those people because you're just not agitated. You able to be more polite. So that summary kind of makes sense. Bring it home.
00:24:14:14 - 00:24:16:12
Alex De Fina
Does the Ghost.
00:24:16:14 - 00:24:51:05
Itamar Marani
Code. So that's kind of where I want to leave it today. Again, I think there's a notion that in order to be kind to people, you have to always think the best of them. And while that sounds really great in theory, when it comes into practice, people get agitated because they have unrealistic expectations of people and having those how you call it, you want to lower expectations, realistic expectations, whatever it may be, having those whether of people in general or of a specific part of a specific person, it actually allows us to see the overall good, so to speak.
00:24:51:07 - 00:25:02:12
Itamar Marani
By staying calm, we can be polite or we can be nice to individuals and we can avoid all those emotional reactions that we have. Any last words on this?
00:25:02:13 - 00:25:48:16
Alex De Fina
What do you think of an equation on this that is similar to all my expectations are a signal that there is a lack of mutually agreed standards or conscious or unconscious incompetence so that there is no standards and that they didn't happen because I'm upset that thing didn't happen to a certain way or to a certain level. So we found two mutually agreed to the standards or somebody just can't do the thing to a level required at the Speed report and they're aware of it or unaware of it.
00:25:48:18 - 00:25:51:05
Itamar Marani
One more time. Yes, and a bit of a different I'm not sure if.
00:25:51:07 - 00:26:09:00
Alex De Fina
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm trying to like I'm just trying to self esteem services as a as a lesson that I can equation that unmet expectations are a symptom of or a signal of not neutral.
00:26:09:02 - 00:26:33:13
Itamar Marani
What I was saying before that like when you send yourself frustrated, it's probably because you either don't have an agreement or it's not being upheld. Now, if if you can change it, amazing whether it's it's not being upheld and you can change it through whatever it is, conversation, discipline, whatever it may be, or if it's not in agreement place, how can you place one if it's possible and it's worthwhile to do it?
00:26:33:15 - 00:26:54:20
Itamar Marani
And if it's not possible and you're saying this is it trumps all the positive I'm getting from this relationship. Like I just don't want to go to this coffee shop anymore, whatever it may be, leave it. If you're saying it's not possible. But you know what? In the aggregate, this is still a great thing. And the wisest thing to do is just to lower your explanation around that specific thing.
00:26:54:20 - 00:27:16:20
Itamar Marani
If it's not changeable, because then you won't get frustrated, right? You'll still be able to enjoy everything else that's really positive. Like, hey, maybe that coffee shop has amazingly comfortable seats and really fast Wi-Fi and you enjoy the cakes or whatever it may be. So if you just let go of the frustration that that barista might get your order wrong, every once in a while, you can enjoy everything else.
00:27:16:22 - 00:27:31:05
Itamar Marani
Yup. So I would love to actually hear people's thoughts on this because I know this is a bit of a different topic and people have very different opinions on this. Please do me or email me about your thoughts about this. I would love to hear. And aside from that, we will see you guys on the next episode.
