How To Stop Self Sabotage, Step Into Leadership and a 20K MRR Jump – W/ Brendan Tully | Elite Performance Podcast #61

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:00
Brendan Tully
I can do all these things in the physical world or do stupid, crazy adventures that are really hard that other people will have trouble with. But I can do that. No problems and suffer and endure and get through. But in the business I struggle to do even, not simple, but these not so difficult things.

00:00:15:05 - 00:00:18:10
Itamar Marani
So what were you viewing the business as, if it's not an adventure, what was it?

00:00:18:13 - 00:00:22:05
Brendan Tully
I don't know, maybe that's the problem.

00:00:22:06 - 00:00:40:06
Itamar Marani
I have a reframe around doing the hard things in the physical world that has been super powerful for me. It allowed me to do all sorts of adventures. I also started using it in the biz and hitting my arena goal of 20,000K rev per month ten days later. As a result, because I did the hard well, it wasn't actually that hard thing that I've been putting off for years.

00:00:40:08 - 00:00:46:16
Itamar Marani
So brethren, first off, welcome to the pod. And can you explain what you mean by that?

00:00:46:18 - 00:01:05:23
Brendan Tully
That's a good question. Where do I start? Okay, so we've been working together for three years. Four years. Maybe we'll use it 20, 24, maybe four years, something like that. Anyway. So we've done a lot of work. But one thing that always frustrated me was, I can do all these things in the physical world or the real world or not.

00:01:05:23 - 00:01:23:11
Brendan Tully
My business life and I struggled to do even, well, not simple, but like these not so difficult things in the business. It's like I can do these stupid, crazy adventures that are really hard that other people will have trouble with. But I can do that. No problems and suffer and endure and get through and,

00:01:23:13 - 00:01:27:01
Itamar Marani
Enjoy it as well. Yeah, you're a bit of a psycho in that part.

00:01:27:03 - 00:01:43:23
Brendan Tully
Yeah, a little bit. And, yeah, in the business, there's things that are like not that difficult, like a struggle or procrastinate. And I'm like two months later, years later, even, I'm like, why the fuck did I do that? If I'd done that two years ago, you know, it would be set. And then I do it and it's like, yeah, okay, that wasn't so hard.

00:01:44:00 - 00:02:05:06
Brendan Tully
But, yeah. So in the physical world, I have this mental frame that's it's basically when something's tough, it's like it's an adventure. Of course, if it's an adventure, it's going to be shit at least partway through somewhere between the kind of 30 to 60 or 70% mark, you're going to be regretting it. You know, like you do a marathon and halfway through, like, why the hell do I do this?

00:02:05:06 - 00:02:20:01
Brendan Tully
This is just horrible. And like my reframe for that is, yeah, of course it's going to suck and it's adventure. It's probably not an adventure if you don't have some sort of sunk in the middle of it. It's kind of like the price you pay. So I started applying that frame to the business, which I don't know why I didn't do that before.

00:02:20:01 - 00:02:49:15
Brendan Tully
It was like so obvious. I was I think I was I might have said that in the post. I spoke with my girlfriend about it and I'm like, you should use that in the business. And I started using it for these things in the business that weren't so difficult that I just kept putting off, and it worked really well, and I started doing things and like I said, I think in the last arena, the stuff we did for the last quarter, I can't remember the tape was but yeah, I had that goal to plus 20 k months, and in ten days I'd hit that goal, I would say effortlessly, but without like really much struggle.

00:02:49:15 - 00:03:06:19
Brendan Tully
It was like just, yeah, just plodding along like I did it. I'm like, okay. So that reframe I wasn't using at all in the business started using it. And, you know, it's yeah, it worked just like it does in the real world or the physical world. So yeah, it was it was a surprise. And I'm like, fuck, I we've been working together.

00:03:06:19 - 00:03:18:05
Brendan Tully
I've been so frustrated like we've had these conversations. I do these stupid things. Like, I remember two years ago I said, I'm going to drive to Bangkok for the DC Bangkok thing. And you're like, no way. I've done enough of that shit in my life that I'm not doing that.

00:03:18:05 - 00:03:25:06
Itamar Marani
And I remember that. Go on the bike. You're going on a motorbike. Motorbike three day, right? I'm like, yeah, well it's when it's monsoon.

00:03:25:08 - 00:03:46:16
Brendan Tully
Yeah, yeah. No rain for two days straight. And it was like, what was true 5 or 6 hour days ended up being to 10 to 12 hour days. And it was it's horrible. But it was a fun adventure. It's like but that's like a good example of this, you know, dealing with the suck. And it was it's funny that I'd been like, I had this question like, why can I do these things and do these adventures?

00:03:46:16 - 00:04:01:08
Brendan Tully
And in the business I'm struggling with these seemingly pretty small things. So, yeah, it was really it's like so obvious. I'm like, why wouldn't I use that in the business? But it's, you know, staring me in the face and I didn't see it till she said it. So yeah, it's interesting.

00:04:01:10 - 00:04:09:13
Itamar Marani
So what were you viewing the business as? If it's not an adventure. What was it? I don't know, I mean, I've had this business.

00:04:09:15 - 00:04:35:09
Brendan Tully
It's gone through different versions of what it is, and it's a different, it's kind of in this weird phase at the moment where I'm pivoting to something else. I don't know. I've had the business, this particular business since 2008, so it's like, I guess in a way, I take it for granted and almost like a job sometimes it's like kind of forget it, you know, you can decide what you want to do and like it's your choice to do this or do that or how you work in the business.

00:04:35:09 - 00:04:53:15
Brendan Tully
And I guess it's been around. I've had it for so long, it's that 15, 16 years now. So I just kind of forget, like, you know, it's your business. You can do one kind of thing. So yeah, I think it's just, you know, some combination of like taking it for granted, treating it more like a job instead of a business.

00:04:53:17 - 00:04:58:18
Brendan Tully
And, you know, that sort of thing. Not being excited as well. That's probably another thing to.

00:04:58:20 - 00:05:05:16
Itamar Marani
When you first started the business to be viewed more as an adventure. Beginning entrepreneurship. I'm going to be that cowboy, no.

00:05:05:16 - 00:05:27:14
Brendan Tully
So this is not my first business. So it's just, you know, for the background, this is a business owned company called Robot Media, and we're a web agency where we have a couple of different web agencies. Basically, we work with small businesses on SEO, search, search, web hosting and technical SEO. And I started that in 2008 because my previous business had gone bust.

00:05:27:14 - 00:05:47:05
Brendan Tully
So we had two different businesses. We had an IT company, and we had a huge an online store that was huge. We took it over for free in the first year. We took it from new 100 K to a million, and the second year 1 million to 6.5 million in revenue. And it was just crazy. We were way out of a depth early 20s.

00:05:47:07 - 00:06:11:08
Brendan Tully
And, it was great until the kind of growth plateaued. And then we kind of we had cash flow issues and ultimately it went bust. So, a big part of why that business was successful was SEO. We're really good at SEO. We didn't know it was called SEO at the time, but really good at ranking in search and then after that went bust, I started getting calls about, you know, helping people with Google search and SEO and, yeah.

00:06:11:08 - 00:06:26:10
Brendan Tully
So that's how that the, the agency started that I have today. So out of that. So definitely not so that was that the other business, the IT company, an online store, it had for 7 or 8 years at that point. So yeah. So this is not my first it's not my first rodeo.

00:06:26:12 - 00:06:39:21
Itamar Marani
So the question about that though, do you think there was a part of you that after you had that it probably seemed like a wild adventure at the beginning when you went from 100 million to 6? Yeah. You think there was a party that that it was like, okay, no more adventures of business. This is not a good thing.

00:06:40:02 - 00:06:43:06
Itamar Marani
And that was yeah, yeah. It taught you the wrong lessons, so to speak.

00:06:43:08 - 00:07:04:16
Brendan Tully
Yeah, yeah. And we've talked about that, that like we were complete cowboys. And we, you know, we rolled the dice so many times and we just got lucky so many times in a row. And we thought it was us. Like we thought it was our skill, not just the random roll of the dice. So, you know, we had a lot of ego and arrogance, and that's ultimately what caused the business to fail when it outgrew us.

00:07:04:16 - 00:07:25:13
Brendan Tully
We didn't, you know, have the humility to be like, we need help. We need someone to come and tell us what to do. But probably the thing, the thing that I kind of took away from that subconsciously, maybe in a bit consciously, is that being a Cowboys, that and kind of I squash that out of me too much in business I think and go to, you know, kind of risk adverse I guess.

00:07:25:13 - 00:07:46:05
Brendan Tully
So we took huge swings in that business, crazy things we did. And that's why it grew so quickly. But, yeah, from that I viewed I kind of I think I subconsciously viewed the I call it cowboys. We talked about it on calls. Yeah. Like I think being a Cowboys bad. But I've come to realize in the last year of working together with you that I need that cowboy energy, but it needs to be balanced as well.

00:07:46:05 - 00:08:01:21
Brendan Tully
It's not all bad. Like I painted a little black, essentially, and it's not all that I need some of that energy. You need to take those big swings, that they need to be a bit more measured and strategic, not just insane. Yeah. You know, that crazy early 20s energy where you're just doing crazy things and not care about that?

00:08:01:21 - 00:08:05:05
Brendan Tully
The outcome or the consequences?

00:08:05:07 - 00:08:10:15
Itamar Marani
I remember you broke down that analogy to be, I think you call it the ranch owner versus the cowboy. Yeah.

00:08:10:19 - 00:08:11:17
Brendan Tully
Correct. Yeah.

00:08:11:19 - 00:08:29:11
Itamar Marani
Yeah. So here's my thought process on it. I think the ranch owner is the hat you wear, so to speak, when you're thinking about the strategy of what should we do? But then the actual implementation of it going through the sock, seeing it as an adventure, that's when we take on the cowboy vibe. Yeah. You know, I mean yeah.

00:08:29:13 - 00:08:44:18
Brendan Tully
So and yeah, I because I came to. Yeah. Because I painted the cowboy so black and I've only recently realized that, you know, in the last year that. Yeah that's the Cowboys the doing guy and the, the ranch over. So I changed the ranch owner now the king. So he's not the ranch owner anymore because that didn't really resonate with me.

00:08:44:18 - 00:08:46:01
Itamar Marani
He's been upgraded.

00:08:46:03 - 00:09:02:10
Brendan Tully
Yeah. He's been upgraded. So now he's the king. So you know strategic. You got the strategic guy, the real thinker and the planner. And then the crazy guy has the energy to do the crazy things. So without so much, you know, undirected, crazy energy like we had in the past and no underlying strategy like we used to have.

00:09:02:12 - 00:09:03:00
Brendan Tully
So.

00:09:03:02 - 00:09:24:05
Itamar Marani
Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think a lot of people go through it where they tell themselves the story, where business has to feel boring, and that because, you know, they're younger, they were a bit wild just because generally everything in their life was a bit while they were younger and something didn't work out that, okay, now I have to be a serious person and I have to be boring.

00:09:24:07 - 00:09:32:23
Itamar Marani
And what happens is I also first off, lose a lot of passion for their business if this isn't fun. And second, yeah, they it almost toughens you up a little bit.

00:09:33:01 - 00:09:49:03
Brendan Tully
Yeah I'd agree definitely. Yeah. That. Yeah. Because you need, you need to kind of like that don't give a shit attitude to a degree not you know it doesn't need to be so strong that you like I don't care about anything but you need a part of that in the business, not be emotionally attached, I guess, to the outcome.

00:09:49:05 - 00:10:01:04
Brendan Tully
And yes, and yeah, I, I think I spent many years squash that squash in that part of me that like that sort of cowboy energy's all bad, so I don't want it. Whereas yeah, you need that measured doses.

00:10:01:06 - 00:10:18:06
Itamar Marani
I think the way I like to think about it is introducing a playfulness when something feels very serious, like, this is a job we have to do well, we always talk about, you know, the performance pressure, bell curve and that just creates so much pressure sometimes that people's performance starts to tank.

00:10:18:07 - 00:10:19:00
Brendan Tully
Yeah, yeah.

00:10:19:06 - 00:10:34:19
Itamar Marani
And when all of a sudden it's viewed in a more playful manner, oh, this is just an adventure. Yeah. Adding that levity to it all of a sudden. It's wild what it does to people's performance, how they're able to execute it, and the things that used to feel so hard and so, you know, anxiety inducing whatever to be there.

00:10:34:19 - 00:10:38:12
Itamar Marani
Oh, cool. Let's try this. Yeah. Wouldn't it be crazy if it were.

00:10:38:14 - 00:10:52:08
Brendan Tully
Yeah, yeah I'd agree. And that frame for me is like training, like an adventure is like something's going to break here and that's okay. You know, like there is going to be some suck here and that's fine. That's part of the process. Like it's not. Again, it's not all bad if something goes wrong and we can deal with it, you know?

00:10:52:08 - 00:10:57:13
Brendan Tully
So you know, nobody's going to die. So you know it's not that bad. Yeah.

00:10:57:15 - 00:11:15:10
Itamar Marani
So can I ask how you were before you took on that frame, let's say in previous months or whatever it may be, when something hard happened, what was the the kind of self-talk was it, why is this happening? This shouldn't be this way. Something must be wrong. What was that for you? You think that caused you to not execute procrastination?

00:11:15:10 - 00:11:33:03
Brendan Tully
Like, it's like different versions of procrastination. Not having enough time. I'll do it tomorrow. I don't have enough time. I had to do this other thing that distracted me is just. And I still have a little bit of that. Like it's not, you know, it's not perfect, you know, but it's, you know, some version of procrastination. It's like, it's not important.

00:11:33:03 - 00:11:50:00
Brendan Tully
It can wait till tomorrow. It's kind of like, and these things are like the The Eisenhower Matrix. It's like it's not urgent. It's important though. And it's just like kicking the can down the road. Like I can do it tomorrow. I can do it next week. And there's always the next day. There's, you know, some sort of excuse that gets in the way again.

00:11:50:02 - 00:12:05:12
Brendan Tully
And I think that's, that's the habit I got into to justify it. And then these important things six months later more and that's still not on this. That's not right. So and it's not even in the case of I know what to do, I know it's going to work. It's like, well, I haven't been doing it. That was what I was frustrated.

00:12:05:12 - 00:12:18:20
Brendan Tully
When we're working together, it's like I'm like, I'm blocked here. Like, what is this thing that is blocking me that I can do all these stupid, crazy things in the real world, but I'm stuck in the business. So. And that was the thing that unblock me is it's an adventure. Of course. So.

00:12:18:22 - 00:12:39:20
Itamar Marani
Yeah, let me try to rephrase that in a different way. Just want to see if it makes sense for you. I think it'll make sense for the audience that when you had an expectation that things are just kind of we'll see how they are and we'll just go along when things got hard or uncomfortable or just weren't urgent, they didn't have this kind of deadline.

00:12:39:20 - 00:12:57:16
Itamar Marani
Whatever it may be, it was easy to default, be like, oh, well, I don't really want to deal with it. But when you preemptively went in with an expectation somewhere between the 30 to 70% mark, it's going to suck. And this is part of it. You signed up for it. It's supposed to be here. It's exactly where you're supposed to be.

00:12:57:18 - 00:13:05:11
Itamar Marani
It's what we wanted. Then when that happened you were like, okay, this is supposed to be here. There's no reason to procrastinate. We actually wanted this. Yep.

00:13:05:12 - 00:13:09:00
Brendan Tully
Yep. I'd agree. Yeah. So what on.

00:13:09:02 - 00:13:30:16
Itamar Marani
Do you see that anywhere else in the business with, with your employees? With your team? When you prep them intentionally ahead of time, like, hey, guys, you're gonna have this project and this is probably the point where you're going to get a little bit frustrated. It's going to feel a little bit, fuzzy or not clear. And again, we just got to prepare for this, and it's supposed to be here.

00:13:30:18 - 00:13:32:03
Itamar Marani
Have you ever try that? Yeah. Them.

00:13:32:05 - 00:13:49:05
Brendan Tully
Yeah, a little bit. I mean, we we kind of do that by default protecting the downside that we know because a lot of the things we do repetitive like do the same thing, moving customers websites around, making change and things like that. So the guys kind of know in advance what's going to go wrong. And we kind of we kind of add those steps in already.

00:13:49:05 - 00:14:04:09
Brendan Tully
It's like, oh, you know, this might happen. So make sure you take it back out first or, you know, do this. You at a certain time of the week or certain time of the day because this might go wrong. So we kind of have that built into the process already. So I don't think we do have that sort of issue in the business.

00:14:04:09 - 00:14:21:18
Brendan Tully
But I think we by default baked into the process to deal with it. So, yeah, so I don't I don't think there's an issue with the stuff like that. But we do talk it and the guys know what the risks are around a lot of things now. So just over time they've learned that. So yeah. Does that answer the question.

00:14:21:20 - 00:14:33:09
Itamar Marani
Kind of I was thinking more about the emotional aspect. You know they're also human beings. Yeah. You guys are going after big new projects to tell them ahead of time. Hey guys. This is going to be challenging. Expect to be challenging.

00:14:33:11 - 00:14:51:05
Brendan Tully
Yeah I mean that's know around the people. You know different different customers have different expectations. So just preempting that in advance. And like we kind of know when someone has an expectation about something and we just you know everyone's because I did still do the sales. So I know in advance, you know, what the customer is going to be like or the particular things they're looking for.

00:14:51:05 - 00:15:02:00
Brendan Tully
So we just make sure the guys included on that in the, you know, on the front for the proactive with communication or whatever it needs to be to just manage those expectations and manage the emotions. So.

00:15:02:02 - 00:15:19:17
Itamar Marani
Yeah, it's an interesting point because, you know, people bring up a lot of times I'm self-sabotaging and they they assume it has to be some kind of belief that they have or there's some really, really deep reason. It could be they just didn't get prepared. They didn't have an expectation of what it was really going to be like.

00:15:19:19 - 00:15:33:13
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And that's why the hell themselves back. Because, you know, it's like if you're just going around your day about the day and someone all of a sudden punches you in the belly, that's really going to suck. You know, I mean, out of nowhere. Yeah, yeah. But as you get expected, it's a whole different ballgame. You can kind of take it.

00:15:33:14 - 00:15:46:22
Itamar Marani
You can keep going. Yeah. And I think just making peace with those expectations. And for you is a reframe of, okay, I'm going to expect it to be I'm going to frame it as an adventure, and therefore I'm going to expect it to be that 30 to 70% mark. There's going to be some or some really sucky stuff there.

00:15:47:03 - 00:15:52:23
Itamar Marani
And it's supposed to be there. That's exactly where we should be. It sounds like that's the difference maker.

00:15:53:01 - 00:15:56:17
Brendan Tully
Yeah, yeah I agree that's yeah, it's.

00:15:56:18 - 00:15:57:08
Itamar Marani
Pushing through.

00:15:57:08 - 00:16:13:00
Brendan Tully
And it is like the emotionally hard thing or it's like and maybe it's like we talked about the cowboy thing as well that like some of these things have risk. It's like you know, not avoiding that cowboy energy. Like I had been for a long time, like many, many years. So I think maybe the combination of the two probably helped.

00:16:13:00 - 00:16:31:09
Brendan Tully
But, you know, the cowboy thing not addressed a wall back. And that was there was still one missing piece. And yeah, I thought for a couple of years we're working together. I'm like, why am I blocked on this? Like, is this something I had thought, am I self-sabotaging? Like, what is this? That it really wasn't that. It was just reframing it and, you know, just expecting the suck.

00:16:31:11 - 00:16:40:07
Itamar Marani
Yeah, yeah. So I want to weave it into a different part, because in that post you also talked about the concept of explorer versus leader.

00:16:40:09 - 00:16:41:06
Brendan Tully
Yeah.

00:16:41:08 - 00:16:45:03
Itamar Marani
Can you kind of explain that in your words how you sort. Yeah. So that was.

00:16:45:03 - 00:17:04:21
Brendan Tully
From Derek Silver's new book. I can't remember the name of it is that he had it was like one of the last chapters and yeah, he was just talking about the difference between being an explorer and being a leader. And, you know, the explorers job is to go and seek out new shiny objects and explore, you know, find new things.

00:17:04:23 - 00:17:22:11
Brendan Tully
And the latest job is to, you know, make a decision. This is what we're doing and lead the team, lead the people to, you know, whatever that is, that destination. And and, I love shiny new things. So it's like really just putting a frame around. It's like there's, you know, and and I noticed, you know, a lot of business owners do.

00:17:22:11 - 00:17:38:16
Brendan Tully
It's like, well, this is actually a very useful frame. There's really two guys or two people in it. We need to be explorer. But at some point the exploration needs to stop and you need to lead people. So it was like, wow, I'm like, I spent so much time in explorer mode. And, that's great when you're by yourself.

00:17:38:16 - 00:17:51:21
Brendan Tully
But when you have a team, it's just chaos, you know, like, let's do this thing over here. And this week we're doing this thing over here. And it's like, people have no idea what the destination is. It's, you know, a lot of it's lacking the clarity and like, where are we going and what do we need to do to get there?

00:17:51:23 - 00:18:09:16
Brendan Tully
So just having that just again, like wrapping a mental model or frame around it is it makes it so clear I'm like, oh, okay. And the other thing is like when when you hit these emotional roadblocks for me in particular, I tend to go off and like, well, there's this shiny new thing over here I can go and check out and like use that.

00:18:09:22 - 00:18:29:09
Brendan Tully
It feels like work, but it's not really work camp. But, you know, in the context of achieving this goal, it's not work, but it would feel like work. So that would be my tendency as well to procrastinate in that way by starting some new project, which is actually how we actually have several brands in the business. And in a roundabout way, that's how some of them came about.

00:18:29:11 - 00:18:42:06
Brendan Tully
But, yeah, I mean, in order to really grow the business, that behavior does, it works when you're by yourself, you know, solo, but when you have a team to lead, that explorer mode can be, yeah, troubles.

00:18:42:07 - 00:18:58:10
Itamar Marani
Us even beyond, a team and solo. I think it's one some things have been established to work in a certain way. You know, I because the whole point of explorer is like, let me go up this mountain. Let me go down this river, let me find, let me find the place I'm supposed to. But then, okay, how do I lead a tribe here to thrive and flourish?

00:18:58:12 - 00:18:59:05
Brendan Tully
Yeah.

00:18:59:07 - 00:19:21:21
Itamar Marani
And I think the big part with, exploring, it's interesting. We're using the physical analogy of, like. And just that analogy of climbing up mountains and going up down rivers. Yeah, that's dopamine rich. Now what it's also is a different kind of challenge of just doing the monotonous things that need to be done. Like it doesn't have that in.

00:19:21:23 - 00:19:36:03
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And that's the fun. And a lot of times that when you go into leader mode there's all these different kind of challenges that aren't also super exciting. Just like, oh, just how do we solve this problem? How do we do with this client? How do we scale whatever it may be? And they're not as exciting as this new thing?

00:19:36:05 - 00:19:41:04
Brendan Tully
Yeah. And it's predictable too. Right. Like that's the other thing. So yeah. Yeah.

00:19:41:06 - 00:19:55:05
Itamar Marani
And we all know not we all love novelty. And I think that's a big thing to kind of accept about ourselves because we're drawn to it doesn't mean it's the right thing, even if it feels like it's the right thing or the thing we're more attracted to recognize our feelings sometimes lead us astray.

00:19:55:06 - 00:20:14:13
Brendan Tully
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's actually a comment Scott made in Bangkok a couple of weeks ago in the workshop he talked about that were drawn to newness, and we actually value newness over things that are established. And that was like, I'm like, oh yeah, that's like that was a really powerful insight for me. Again, like just wrapping some language around like those feelings.

00:20:14:13 - 00:20:30:07
Brendan Tully
It's like, yeah, we really do value that new over, you know, something we already have. So that that also kind of plays into that as well, that the new things can seem so shiny and so good compared to, you know, this thing that's kind of boring and working and, you know, pumping out dollars and, you know, it's predictable.

00:20:30:07 - 00:20:33:19
Brendan Tully
So yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:33:21 - 00:20:49:10
Itamar Marani
So I want to kind of tie it back a little bit to performance, because the way I look at it beyond just the explore mode and the leader mode just being more or less calling a dopamine rich or just their new.

00:20:49:12 - 00:20:50:12
Brendan Tully
Yeah.

00:20:50:13 - 00:21:08:16
Itamar Marani
You personally, you have a certain energy you need to get out. And like we talked about it back in the day, there's there's Cal Newport who's Cal Newport, you know great thought leader. All that kind of jazz. He's not that kind of human who has that very A-type energy that has to do a lot of crazy shit.

00:21:08:18 - 00:21:22:10
Itamar Marani
And like I'll just repeat quickly the story of how we found this out. It was one of those arena calls that you were doing a lot of stuff in your business that didn't, I couldn't make complete sense of it, of like why it was all these kind of ones. And I asked you, why are you doing all this?

00:21:22:12 - 00:21:41:01
Itamar Marani
You're like, I just need some crazy in my life. I think you were joking about. I was like, we need to fix that. Yeah, yeah. And you had this process where you would do deep work, so to speak, like as a chunk in your calendar and the beginning of the day. And then at the end of the day, you do jujitsu or surfing or mountain biking or whatever it might be.

00:21:41:03 - 00:21:48:02
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And all of a sudden when we flipped it around, you were able to find your calm because you got that crazy out of you first. So to speak.

00:21:48:04 - 00:21:49:00
Brendan Tully
Yeah.

00:21:49:01 - 00:21:52:02
Itamar Marani
Can you speak a little about your experience around that.

00:21:52:04 - 00:22:11:01
Brendan Tully
Yeah I remember one, we talked about that one one day in particular when we go mountain biking on a Monday morning at like 7 a.m., I took a photo of my Instagram. I'm like you know. Yeah like physically for me like I need to do the physical, I need to get that. And I'm like a dog, right?

00:22:11:01 - 00:22:28:12
Brendan Tully
If you leave a dog trapped inside, he's going to go crazy and tear the place up and do a lot of stupid things. That's like me. So, yeah, I was, you know, starting work. I had this crazy energy, and I just end up using the business to get that energy. And that was not great. You know, not as you would say.

00:22:28:12 - 00:22:46:05
Brendan Tully
It's not effective from a business. It's not good or bad, was not effective from a business perspective. We're moving the business forward. So yeah. So getting that energy out in the morning instead of the evening made a huge difference. And it makes me so much calmer when I, you know, just like a dog, take the dog out for a walk, take him out for a run.

00:22:46:06 - 00:23:01:09
Brendan Tully
It's so much calmer after that. I'm exactly the same. So I just learned that over time. And now I like a I don't need to do something crazy in the morning, but just even like ten minutes, you know, work out something small. I've, I've kind of learned that that's my behavior. So I, I know what the feeling is like.

00:23:01:09 - 00:23:16:19
Brendan Tully
I know what level of energy I have to get out. So I adjust accordingly now. But yeah, made a huge difference. And I stopped doing a lot of stupid things. Just just treating myself like a dog who needs to take it for a walk, essentially. So to calm him down.

00:23:16:21 - 00:23:30:12
Itamar Marani
So let me ask you this, because I keep hearing from you that you think I get this less than locked in, I get less and locked in, and then I get that less and locked in, and all of a sudden each one of them creates kind of, a jump as far as my performance, as far as are the outcomes reproduce in the business.

00:23:30:14 - 00:23:43:20
Itamar Marani
Yeah. What do you think those main kind of learning lessons or blocks are that have been for you these past couple of years? One is, like you said, get the energy out, take the dog out for a walk.

00:23:43:22 - 00:24:06:01
Brendan Tully
Yeah, that's probably one. I don't know if we talked about this at one. There's probably one lesson I learned just working through some of this stuff that, like, you know, there's two parts of the business I need to focus on. One is product and one is marketing. So having that dichotomy that I'm like, either we need to work on products, build products, improve products, improve process, or we need to work on marketing.

00:24:06:01 - 00:24:24:10
Brendan Tully
So selling them so that that lesson's probably tied into the other ones. Yeah. Being more calm, having more time to think. And you know, look at we have a bunch of we have several brands and we have some really great products. So I spend a lot of time because I had this energy to get out. We started all these brands, we have some good products and I'm like, okay, well, what's the problem?

00:24:24:12 - 00:24:47:00
Brendan Tully
The products don't sell themselves. So just having that dichotomy of product versus marketing has, you know, particularly in the last 6 or 12 months, has had made a huge difference. So that's one lesson I just, you know, what other what else? You know, just working less, you know, the the whole business is more efficient. I'm doing a lot less, because I'm not doing the crazy things.

00:24:47:03 - 00:25:06:11
Brendan Tully
So I'm not creating work that doesn't, you know, ineffective work or stuff that doesn't move the needle forward. So, yeah, I don't I don't know if there's a particular lesson there, but, you know, just when we first started working together, I thought I was a workaholic. That was one of the things, one of the reasons why I wanted to to start working with you.

00:25:06:11 - 00:25:28:19
Brendan Tully
And I realized over time that that's over learning these lessons. So that is definitely not my problem. So I'm actually can be quite lazy. So, yeah, I don't I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah, I mean, the the net result is the business works better and I'm working less. So and it's, you know, the direction that's going is good and we have a lot of opportunity.

00:25:28:21 - 00:25:45:20
Brendan Tully
So, you know, that's for me, the net result of some of these lessons, and it's still a work in progress, obviously. But, yeah, it's it's, you know, I'm much happier with the business as opposed to a few years back when we started working together, it was like, felt like it was killing me. And I'm just like, I felt like a workaholic.

00:25:45:20 - 00:25:48:23
Brendan Tully
So, yeah.

00:25:49:01 - 00:26:08:16
Itamar Marani
Can I share kind of what I think is the frame? And I'm curious to hear what you think about it. So again, this could resonate with somebody if they're in a and this is really, really important. If they are listening in and they see themselves in you, meaning they like to serve up a lot of things, they're a more a type male individual who has a lot of testosterone.

00:26:08:16 - 00:26:30:19
Itamar Marani
They need to get up for real. It's important because it is a difference in somebody who's just like, there's a big it'll be such a dramatic difference in the advice. Somebody who has a hard time getting himself off the couch needs to take. Yeah. Compared to someone who just always drives his head through the wall. You know, I mean, and it's really important to understand who am I in order to filter it?

00:26:30:21 - 00:26:52:12
Itamar Marani
Do I resonate with what this person is saying? Am I the same starting point? Do they are? So I know it sounds kind of funny, but it is, I think, really important, to get out there. Yeah. So if they're that kind of person and they find themselves, either they feel like they're kind of sabotaging or there's sometimes stall at a certain level, it might not be because they're just afraid or mentally blocked.

00:26:52:14 - 00:27:11:16
Itamar Marani
It could be because one, they just haven't found an outlet for their energy. So they keep doing a lot of things they shouldn't be doing. And then two, they put too much pressure on it by saying it's too serious. It's a job. We have to be serious about it. It's not an adventure like you don't find a frame how to make it fun.

00:27:11:18 - 00:27:31:15
Itamar Marani
So in that performance pressure bell curve, it just it feels like there's too much pressure all the time. It's no fun. It's not levity. It's not a game. Yeah. I think, I think the best way to kind of explain it is when you have a challenge with an emotional weight that stress, when you have just a challenge, then it's a puzzle.

00:27:31:17 - 00:27:49:18
Itamar Marani
And for you, a lot of the ways that you've had challenges in, you know, mountain biking, surfing, jujitsu, there's not an emotional stress of like, what will this mean if it doesn't? Let's try to do this. That'll be cool. Yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah, yeah. It took that kind of energy into the business. So I guess.

00:27:49:18 - 00:27:58:23
Brendan Tully
Yeah, the context is purely fun, that it's like there's no, you know, there's no other reason to do it other than fun. It's not, you know, I don't have to do it. So, Yeah. That's interesting.

00:27:59:00 - 00:28:19:18
Itamar Marani
Yeah. So that's the adventure. And then the final piece is that they haven't set expectations correctly. That adventure is also supposed to have stuck in them. Yeah. I think the the whole ice baths analogy, you know, that if you're walking down the street and your skin gets cold, it gets all prickly and your temperature drops, you'll feel panicky with what the heck is going on, something's wrong.

00:28:19:18 - 00:28:34:20
Itamar Marani
I have to go to the hospital right now. But if you know you're going to an ice bath, you're like, okay, these things supposed to happen, so no need to panic. Just be cold again. It's all right. That kind of nail it in for anything you feel like I'm missing. There.

00:28:34:22 - 00:28:40:19
Brendan Tully
Oh, really? Yeah, I think you've you've now pretty much hit it on the head. So. Yeah.

00:28:40:21 - 00:29:00:05
Itamar Marani
Cool comment. So I want to say again, like first off congrats on the success. But it's really cool to see. It's also really cool to see when when people come up with their own frame, their own methods to just be better and perform better. Yeah. Is there anything you would like to kind of add, or to someone out there that feels like they're in your shoes a little bit?

00:29:00:07 - 00:29:07:15
Itamar Marani
If you keep doing all these things, keep going back and forth. What advice would you give to someone like that? Or to, let's say, your younger self?

00:29:07:17 - 00:29:21:18
Brendan Tully
Yeah. For me, like one of the other things we talked about procrastinating. But one of the other things I try to do is add more pressure. So I'd add more things onto the list to do, which you know, to be like, okay, more pressure will push this stuff through. And it didn't work. And for me, like realizing that we talked about that.

00:29:21:20 - 00:29:43:11
Brendan Tully
Yeah, the ranch owner, the king and being strategic. And for me, you know, taking a step back and zooming out and just calming down and like, thinking things through while while I'm also physically calm, that that helps a lot. Generally it would have helped a lot years ago, but generally it does help me a lot by being more strategic because I'm my default nature is to do so much stuff.

00:29:43:11 - 00:30:14:00
Brendan Tully
I'm like tactile and a doer and kinesthetic. And I always want to be doing stuff, and that's my default nature. Then, you know, I need to. We talked about this, I think a Bangkok overcorrecting. I need to overcorrect and actually do a lot less. And part of that for me, like if we talk about like specific things through, what is doing less mean for me it means like taking a step back, zooming out, being, you know, big picture, being strategic and thinking about things in detail before doing them like that for me helps a lot.

00:30:14:02 - 00:30:25:06
Brendan Tully
And then, you know, once I'm ready to, you know, once I let the dog out and like, ready to take action, then, you know, the action is effective. I'm going in the right direction. I'm not, you know.

00:30:25:08 - 00:30:28:08
Itamar Marani
Going the just whistling around the room everywhere. Yeah, it's it's kind of crazy.

00:30:28:08 - 00:30:50:03
Brendan Tully
It's not just energy and getting out actually putting the energy towards, you know, the right direction at the right speed and you know, the right pace. So yeah, for that, that overcorrecting is something I thought about a lot is, you know, it feels like I'm going overboard on like it actually, because that my default tendency is to do being doing mode is probably lands me somewhere in the middle by overcorrecting.

00:30:50:05 - 00:30:51:20
Brendan Tully
So does that make sense?

00:30:51:22 - 00:31:09:19
Itamar Marani
It does. So I kind of, I clarified it a bit for the audience. So what we did in the workshop, we did for all our alumni event, we share with them a concept we're going to be sharing the book called The Three Archetypes. And the whole point of it was in order for someone to self recognize themselves in this archetype, there is a go harder guy.

00:31:09:23 - 00:31:27:08
Itamar Marani
There's a want to be like I and the chip on the shoulder guy and the reality, all these archetypes, they have their pluses and they also have their minuses. So it's important to recognize who am I? Because then I can recognize, oh, I probably this thing, for example, like Brendan, the go harder guy, that he goes too hard.

00:31:27:10 - 00:31:45:20
Itamar Marani
If you ever feel like, am I going too hard, that means you've gone way, way too hard. You're way, way overdoing. And meanwhile the want to be like I, for example, they usually don't have that same kind of energy. So for them, if they're wondering like could I go a little bit more? Probably yes. You know what I mean.

00:31:45:23 - 00:32:05:02
Itamar Marani
So it's just important to kind of know yourself as far as where you stand on certain things. It's just like a bias. Like if you know you're overly optimistic, overly pessimistic, you need to be conscious of that so you can purposefully correct for it. Like, if you know that your car automatically veers to the right, you're going to purposely steer it a little bit to the left and correct for it.

00:32:05:04 - 00:32:12:12
Itamar Marani
It's the same kind of thing. And why so important to know how you naturally get drawn to things.

00:32:12:14 - 00:32:14:05
Itamar Marani
That make it clear.

00:32:14:07 - 00:32:14:17
Brendan Tully
Yeah.

00:32:14:18 - 00:32:33:15
Itamar Marani
Absolutely. Cool. So I kind of say it again one last time just for the people listening at home that I think if you're feeling sabotaged or you feel like you're kind of stalling at a certain point it might not be just because you have a certain fear or a mental block. You need to work through it. Just a big, big frame around this.

00:32:33:17 - 00:32:48:23
Itamar Marani
First off, find a way if you need to, to get that energy out so you does. Zooming around the room, the cow runner says walk the dog is second. Ask yourself, am I putting too much pressure on this? Or does this feel like a fun adventure? Whatever that is to you, find a way to make it feel playful.

00:32:48:23 - 00:33:07:07
Itamar Marani
Add some levity there. It's just a game. Like if you're listening to this podcast, chances are you're probably doing already pretty well in life. Like everything else is just bonus. It's just a game, and if you can treat it like just a game where you just have the challenge and not the challenge, plus the emotional weight of what will this mean about me if I don't?

00:33:07:09 - 00:33:26:03
Itamar Marani
All of a sudden your performance actually shoots up? Paradoxically, people think like, if I put more pressure and feel crappy about myself, then my performance will be better. But usually with the guys that already have that push in them, like we said, it takes them overboard. It's not a positive thing, and the last thing is to have expectations ready, like there's going to be.

00:33:26:03 - 00:33:44:08
Itamar Marani
I really like how you said at any point the 30 to 70% mark, there's going to be some suck. And if you're not ready for it, it's not surprising. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's the thing. If you don't prepare for that, you're going to regret it in real time. And they'll be like, okay, let me just do something else that's easier and you'll suck back into that explore mode.

00:33:44:10 - 00:33:46:12
Brendan Tully
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00:33:46:14 - 00:33:52:06
Itamar Marani
Rather than if people want to reach out, learn more about your company, how can they reach out? Where can they find you?

00:33:52:08 - 00:34:02:19
Brendan Tully
Oh, that's a good question. Probably on a main website. Robot media, online.com. I think there's a there's a contact form there. So that's probably the best place.

00:34:02:21 - 00:34:14:07
Itamar Marani
So we'll put that in the channel below. But I must say thanks again for coming on. I appreciate you sharing your personal insights here. It was great to hear. And for everybody else, I wish you a great rest of your day. Bye, guys. Thanks for.