Why Positive Thinking Makes You Weak | Elite Performance Podcast #40

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:06
Itamar Marani
Do you remember that story when you were growing up about the prince who waited until he was fully confident and positive before he went to rescue the princess? No. Nobody else does either. Like, you won't remember it either. The stories, the things that we all remember are the challenging experiences. Like we used to have a saying in the unit that an experience is a nightmare in the past tense.

00:00:21:07 - 00:00:49:14
Itamar Marani
One of the most interesting questions that I got in a recent Arena cohort was somebody asked me, when I find myself procrastinating, how do I stop negative thinking and switch into more positive thinking? And as soon as the he asked that, I was like we're got to take a step back and we've got to pause because we're asking the wrong question here. Now, the problem with that question was that it was rooted in the foundation, that he had a belief that in order to take action, I need to stop thinking negatively.

00:00:49:14 - 00:01:07:15
Itamar Marani
I need to think positively. He was basically saying ideal conditions only. Only if I think positive, then I can take action. And that's why even even thinking of that question to ask, like, how can I swat myself and think more positively instead of negative? And that's a big problem. And it's also a very ineffective way to think if you want to take action.

00:01:07:17 - 00:01:23:06
Itamar Marani
It will definitely hold you back from achieving what you can do, what you're capable of doing. And again, if you want to achieve a lot of action and achieve a lot of things, you can't wait for it to feel positive and only do things then. And that's why we're going to be talking about today. So with that in mind, I want to welcome my co-host.

00:01:23:06 - 00:01:25:18
Itamar Marani
Alex. Thank you for being here today.

00:01:25:20 - 00:01:27:03
Alexander De Fina
Thank you Itamar.

00:01:27:05 - 00:01:32:18
Itamar Marani
Of course, the first off, any thoughts about that before we get started rolling?

00:01:32:20 - 00:01:37:09
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, negative thinking versus positive thinking.

00:01:37:11 - 00:01:41:20
Itamar Marani
The whole positive thinking vibe, let's call it.

00:01:41:22 - 00:01:49:07
Alexander De Fina
A basically preface. It sounds like we might be moving towards effective thinking versus ineffective thinking rather than negative-positive.

00:01:49:09 - 00:02:19:12
Itamar Marani
I like it. I like it. Yeah. Cool. Interesting. Cool. Here's the deal. The main takeaway I would like for everybody listening today is that you're going to feel negative or pessimistic at times. That's going to happen. That is okay. You do not have to let that stop you. It's a choice. I think where this guide got that from is this whole notion out there like, oh, you want to get into this amazing state where you're just like, in this positive flow state, You do this, you do that, and you feel great, and then you go and conquer the world.

00:02:19:14 - 00:02:39:23
Itamar Marani
And there's this a lot of us, it's bullshit out there. And it frustrates me because I know that it's not true and B, it causes and feeds on people's need to want to act only when it feels comfortable, which is a natural need of ours. And it's holding a lot of people back. It's a shame that I only want only take confident action.

00:02:40:01 - 00:02:57:00
Itamar Marani
It's like, what if you took action when you're not confident as well? What if you learn to do that? Like how you said it's not positive or negative. This is being able to be effective or not. And that's the main thing I want to dive into today to recognize that you're going to feel negative or pessimistic at time.

00:02:57:02 - 00:03:16:17
Itamar Marani
And the real goal is not to say, how can I stop feeling negative, negative and always feel positive and take action. But the real goal is to say, what if I can take action and do the things I'm supposed to do even when I feel a certain way that isn't ideal?

00:03:16:19 - 00:03:19:02
Alexander De Fina
So let's go.

00:03:19:04 - 00:03:44:04
Itamar Marani
All right, So I'll say it like this. I think that's what separates children from adults. Like being able to do the thing that, you know, you should be doing that you have the toolkit to do regardless if you're in the best emotional state or not, regardless if you're super motivated or not. Regardless if you know with certainty that you're going to get amazing results or not.

00:03:44:06 - 00:04:04:03
Itamar Marani
And again, I think the main thing is that we all have and we have to understand that we all have this natural tendency. We would love it, nothing would be better if things were easy and we would always feel great and all our actions felt amazing and great. It's important to recognize that we all have that lower part of ourselves that would love for that to happen.

00:04:04:07 - 00:04:21:11
Itamar Marani
That would be the ideal condition, but it's not a realistic thing to fall back on. And that if we're not very vigilant, that part is always going to creep up and try to take the driver's seat and say, Wait, wait, we don't feel positive, so let's not do it. Let's figure out why we don't feel positive. Let's do something to make ourselves show positive.

00:04:21:13 - 00:04:25:11
Itamar Marani
And only then let's think about it.

00:04:25:13 - 00:04:35:00
Alexander De Fina
So do you have a definition? Do you have a definition that would encompass positive versus negative thinking?

00:04:35:02 - 00:04:55:07
Itamar Marani
I don't, which is interesting because I never honestly, I never felt the need to define it like this. Negative. Positive. Like what exactly? When are you in this state or when you're in that state? I think that actually looking for a definition is is kind of like the trend right now, which I think it's not really helpful. It's like, what does it help you to know?

00:04:55:07 - 00:05:15:23
Itamar Marani
Okay, I'm in a really, really positive state or a bit of a negative state right now. Like, I think it's a lot of it's it's a lot of mental play that doesn't actually serve the real issue about you being able to take action. Like, and this is where I would like to contribute to this conversation because there is value.

00:05:15:23 - 00:05:37:03
Itamar Marani
And again, like doing certain things, like working out, like eating healthy to keep your mindset right, you're just not in a negative place all the time that I'm not denying and not trying to argue against. But it gets to a point where it becomes a dependency. You're saying, Unless I feel great, then I can't. And I think that's a problem.

00:05:37:04 - 00:05:54:21
Itamar Marani
Like I would say, that's a very ineffective way to live. And that's, I think, an extremely frustrating way to live. Like, if I was, for example, preparing for a marathon and I said, okay, I know I have to run a lot through that. I have to get my miles, but I'm only going to run if it's sunny and nice outside.

00:05:54:23 - 00:06:16:22
Itamar Marani
Like, first off, I'm not going to get the miles that I need to get in, so I'm not going to get the result and be in a weird way, like paradoxically, me waiting for these ideal conditions where it feels great to run because it's sunny, it's actually going to make me have a ton of anxiety because every morning I'm going to wake up and say, Oh wait, I hope it's a good situation right now.

00:06:16:22 - 00:06:37:12
Itamar Marani
I hope it's a good climate. I hope I can run, I hope I can feel good. And I've seen people go through that where they basically fall victim to that and they feel trapped like, oh, wait, I hope it's I feel good. There are other words I can't. And it creates this downward spiral of anxiety because you can't always control that and you feel powerless.

00:06:37:14 - 00:06:39:04
Itamar Marani
That's the big thing.

00:06:39:06 - 00:07:02:01
Alexander De Fina
It's so covered for a lot of entrepreneurs. COVID would have would have given that, you know, for a lot of industries that was either shut down, whether it was supply chains or just ability to actually keep your business open. And when that when those government mandates first kicked in or restrictions, you know, for a lot of business owners, I can see how that wouldn't have been thinking terribly positively because there's a lot of external challenge.

00:07:02:03 - 00:07:10:21
Alexander De Fina
But how would that would then move to effective thinking and decision making as opposed to being stuck in the inside?

00:07:10:23 - 00:07:32:08
Itamar Marani
Great question. Yeah, So beyond like before that. So what you're saying is like it wasn't positive news heart, like COVID had some hardships, had some challenges for a lot of business owners. Now the business owners and let's say this business owner and business owner be okay. So business owner was like, you know, I feel really bad about this COVID thing right now.

00:07:32:09 - 00:07:51:12
Itamar Marani
It's very challenging for me, my business, my family. It's like I just got to like, keep motivating myself. I got to do something more positive, get myself in a positive mindset. And when I get to this positive mindset, then I know I can do the right things. So he had the morning routine. He took the extra supplements that help him sleep better so he can get an optimal sleep score.

00:07:51:14 - 00:08:09:06
Itamar Marani
He did a cold plunge, ordered a sauna, whatever it may be, and then he got himself to a really good state. And then a new regulation came in or second wave or third wave. It crossed him. So we never ended up doing things. And then other side, you got business owner, big business. And Ruby was like, you know, this is going to be a hard year.

00:08:09:08 - 00:08:29:18
Itamar Marani
It's going to be a very challenging year. So we're going to do things under challenging conditions and that's how we're going to move forward and we're going to accept that it's going to feel challenging. But that doesn't mean that we need to stop. And honestly, he also probably took it as an opportunity because he was like, I know I'm a savage and I know there's a lot of business owners out there.

00:08:29:20 - 00:08:41:23
Itamar Marani
They're going to be wiped away because they're going to be waiting for things to feel comfortable and I'm just going to do so while they're wasting all their time trying to get their mood up. I'm just going to be doing the thing.

00:08:42:01 - 00:09:12:11
Alexander De Fina
If you feel like a large external event like that forces people to become more practical and take action. So if you're a restaurant owner and you can't operate under certain conditions, if you want to put food on the table and not go bankrupt, you have to take steps. Whereas outside of those large events we might be struggling with, with things which we can kind of we can accept not taking action because it's not existential.

00:09:12:12 - 00:09:13:09
Alexander De Fina
Yeah.

00:09:13:11 - 00:09:35:06
Itamar Marani
Absolutely. I think it really the extremes for certain realities that you can kind of get away with when you can get away with certain unhelpful behaviors when the situation is easier, are not as extreme, but when those things happen, it changes the whole game.

00:09:35:08 - 00:10:11:17
Alexander De Fina
Because I found a lot of business owners that I was coaching were desperate for ideas, mindsets, actions, both tactical or strategic, and they were really, really interested in following the advice because the back was against the wall and and they couldn't see the light. But I find a lot of other people in other circumstances because the the threat is not as as serious struggle to to be as practical as they would be when their backs against the wall like COVID.

00:10:11:19 - 00:10:32:00
Itamar Marani
Yeah. And I think it's a very it's it's in a way it's a beautiful thing. It's like when situation is easy, you don't have to be your best self. And when you're given an opportunity to not be your best self, that's when to get that lower part of you can start taking over. You can start be asking yourself a lot.

00:10:32:02 - 00:10:46:06
Itamar Marani
You can start to say, okay, you know what? Yeah, I do need to have the two hour morning routine. Like, Oh, I do need to take all these supplements. Oh, like I do need to seek out a better mantra to say to myself, whatever it may be, I need to get a better environment before I do this or that.

00:10:46:08 - 00:11:08:02
Itamar Marani
And the world will let you get away from it. Get away with it. Sorry. Because the conditions are easier and all of a sudden when things get a lot harder and you're not used to having to deal with things just being challenging and moving anyway, because again, like that is the marketing thing to talk about positive thinking these days.

00:11:08:04 - 00:11:31:15
Itamar Marani
And you nobody told you that that's not what you need to do. You don't have to wait until you feel positive, don't have to wait till you feel confident that you're going to feel stuck all of a sudden because you're unprepared. You don't have the skill set, and it's a skill that you can acquire, that you can practice and you can harp on to move with this comfort, not this spite, but just with it.

00:11:31:17 - 00:11:41:09
Alexander De Fina
Is that a trend that you see emerging amongst entrepreneurs and the age of sort of the new age sort the spiritual thinking or biohacking, that these things become a constraint?

00:11:41:11 - 00:11:58:20
Itamar Marani
Yeah, absolutely. Like so I think the whole like anti mourning routine trend, I think Alison-Madueke talks about a lot and I agree with him. I think what it is, is what he's trying to say in his way is like, guys, stop focusing on all these things to get you to do the work instead of just doing the work.

00:11:58:22 - 00:12:23:08
Itamar Marani
And it is like he's an absolute doer. He just does. And he's a rare specimen and an amazing specimen as far as to do it. Now, most people, they don't have that threshold of pain. They haven't trained to it yet and it's a train thing. So they're like, okay, this feels a bit uncomfortable but painful. So let me try to even that out with something else like, let's say something basic cold Coca-Cola, that's a painful thing.

00:12:23:08 - 00:12:44:14
Itamar Marani
So before I cold call, let me do this morning routine. Let me do this. Let me do that so I can get myself in a good mood and that can balance out. There's some negative, some challenge, but I also feel positive and people get sucked into that. It's I've seen people and we've all seen people in entrepreneurship communities have they go from one trend to another to make themselves feel better.

00:12:44:16 - 00:12:59:04
Itamar Marani
So I think like 2018 it was, Oh, I have ADHD, so I have to figure out this and I have ADHD as well. I was diagnosed as a kid and I understand that. But it was I mean, yeah, it was okay, I have ADHD, so this is I have to do all of these things in order to get myself to function.

00:12:59:06 - 00:13:13:19
Itamar Marani
Then it turned on into like, you know what? I have to do some emotional healing I have to do, then I have to do an ayahuasca trip, and that's going to make me feel better. And then I have to take all these supplements for my sleep because my Aurora score is at 80 day and I can't deal with that.

00:13:13:21 - 00:13:30:00
Itamar Marani
Then it became I go after these morning routines, as do a coal plant. Now I think the trend is now I have to get my testosterone checked all the time. And if my testosterone is a bit low, that's why I can't do anything. Mm. Okay. Then it's EDM or the next thing and the next trend is always a trend of how do I make myself feel better?

00:13:30:02 - 00:13:42:19
Itamar Marani
Because there's a hope that if I make myself feel better, then I'll finally do the thing instead of recognizing I don't have to feel better in order to do the thing that makes sense.

00:13:42:21 - 00:14:01:07
Alexander De Fina
It's a lot of sense. I often try to think of it like on a spectrum, one extreme there's accountability and the other one is sort of the excuse making or sort of acceptance. So if it's someone who needs to to lose weight, for example, okay, I'm going to habitual I training, I was going to go to the gym and do the fitness thing Monday through Friday.

00:14:01:09 - 00:14:17:12
Alexander De Fina
And that's kind of like the high degree of accountability. I didn't sleep well last night. I'm tired and I've got a busy day at work. Q You agreed to a thing you better stay committed to to that. I have a high degree, so extreme end of accountability as a people who train 2 hours a day but only sleep 3 hours a night.

00:14:17:13 - 00:14:40:12
Alexander De Fina
Doesn't matter what's going on in the world, it always gets done. And then the other excuse making, I got so tired, you know, it's a bit rainy outside. I've seen firsthand how how detrimental to the the excuses can become and how creative people can get. That's a natural procrastination, because everything is not right. The conditions are optimal.

00:14:40:14 - 00:14:58:12
Itamar Marani
Yeah, I think what you said there is so it's so well, well said. The perpetual the creative procrastination that's a lot of this of that's what it is that we don't recognize, trying to get ourselves to feel positive. We're just trying to be creative how we can procrastinate until we feel so positive and so great, so confident that we move forward.

00:14:58:14 - 00:15:20:03
Alexander De Fina
And do you feel like most of those, whatever the procrastination is, kind of boils down to a version of difficult things? Like I know on the other side of this is just doing the boring work or, you know, physical pain or the boring work or the work that goes on, not as therefore I'm going to get creative with the way to procrastinate.

00:15:20:05 - 00:15:40:21
Itamar Marani
Yeah, it's like I'm I'd rather not do that because that's not what's natural for a human fun, easy and just like very enticing. Sure, there's delayed gratification inside those things. So how can I avoid delayed gratification by doing something else that will gratify me right now if I do the I don't know, the cold plunge or whatever it may mean, we feel a boost.

00:15:40:23 - 00:15:56:14
Itamar Marani
So let me do that and that. And a lot of these things, like how you're saying they're creative, they're also sneaky because I'm trying to like it's actually something really productive that I'm doing all this time and getting myself to think positive. I'm not procrastinating. I'm doing something really positive here.

00:15:56:16 - 00:16:05:17
Alexander De Fina
And so a similar way, if you your your test for beliefs, like how is that helping you? What would you get from this?

00:16:05:19 - 00:16:06:11
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

00:16:06:13 - 00:16:08:11
Alexander De Fina
Would you apply that to the behavior as well?

00:16:08:13 - 00:16:27:04
Itamar Marani
Yeah I would. And I think again, there is it's not a black and white thing. There is a threshold there. I think, like you like for me personally, I recognize that me working out every day, absolutely positive because it's like I work out first thing in the morning when I wake up. Like everything in the world is better, but I'm not dependent.

00:16:27:08 - 00:16:46:01
Itamar Marani
And that's the big thing. If I can't work out during the day, that doesn't mean I'm going to tell myself, Well, I can't do this and that today because I didn't get my work out it. And I think that's the tipping point. When it becomes a dependency where you're saying to yourself, unless I could get have this, do this, whatever it may be, then I can't do that.

00:16:46:03 - 00:17:07:14
Itamar Marani
That's when it's a real problem. That's the line when it becomes a dependency. But unless I get the morning routine, unless I finally figure out through coaching, through therapy, through supplements, through whatever it may be, through ayahuasca, and I get all of this negative thinking completely out of me. So it's 100% clear out of some positive. Unless I do that, I can't take action.

00:17:07:14 - 00:17:34:17
Itamar Marani
That's a problem. Like, I think for me, the recovery, we're talking about the delayed gratification and just not doing the simple things that need to get done. I can always say this stuff is a skill for me. The moment that really it was kind of a turning point was when I was 18. So in boot camp in the Special Forces, I think it was like week four of advancing to boot camp was like the hardest part is an eight week period.

00:17:34:19 - 00:17:55:04
Itamar Marani
We were all starting to do kind of geography and we weren't outwardly complaining, but we were starting to have like a little bit of victimhood creep. This is hard. This is difficult that it up and it was it was difficult. It was very hard. You know, we were covered in mud all the time. We were sleep deprived. We were underfed.

00:17:55:06 - 00:18:15:20
Itamar Marani
Everyone's body was torn up in shape. And then one of the officers came in and he targets and he's like, Listen, guys, the pain is temporary, pride is forever. It's like like the fact that you're feeling some pain right now doesn't mean you need to back away from it. Like on the other side of this pain, you can be proud of yourself.

00:18:15:22 - 00:18:39:19
Itamar Marani
It's either glory is forever. Is that your internal pride is. And I think that's a really big thing to recognize that especially when you don't feel positive, that's your opportunity. Something that you'll be proud of and like. Yes, you may be doing the morning tea. It's something you can enjoy, but it's such a lesser level of emotion than pride, just enjoyment.

00:18:39:21 - 00:18:58:15
Itamar Marani
And I was that it's not about moving it, taking action despite you feeling negative. It's taking action because you feel negative. Like if you can do that, there's so much pride on the side of it that you actually will paradoxically feel a lot more positive because.

00:18:58:17 - 00:19:25:03
Alexander De Fina
There's a quote that I like, which I think is from a similar sort of vein in that nobody will know but you will. And I applied that to situations where there's difficult work and it could work out, you know, I'm going to do 100 burpees and you're counting like, well, you know, maybe if you're in a class environment like, well, I'm the leader or number one job on that 86, I can just stop now.

00:19:25:06 - 00:19:48:21
Alexander De Fina
So say that I did 100. Yeah, I really loved that quote. Nobody will know but you will because I think that directly relates to your self-confidence and just doing the thing regardless and having that little pride and saying, Look, I did this thing, nobody is watching. And it was difficult. I could have quit, but I feel way better about myself and more confident because I stay committed to my to my desire to achieve whatever.

00:19:48:23 - 00:20:07:23
Itamar Marani
Yeah, And I think it's a really powerful mental reframe. And that's what I told the guy from the program. So here's a reframe. Instead of thinking about this as like, okay, how can I wait to feel positive about it? You know what? I can feel very proud of myself and I will feel amazing if I do it despite me not being in a good state.

00:20:07:23 - 00:20:27:05
Itamar Marani
So therefore, whenever I feel myself in a bit of a negative place or not super confident, that's my opportunity to do something that I'm really proud of. If I don't feel that way, if I don't feel a bit negative, a bit frayed, a bit anxious, whatever it may be, I do not get the opportunity to act with courage and to do something that I'm proud of.

00:20:27:07 - 00:20:47:06
Itamar Marani
It's like the old the thing I say a lot of times that cause people to smirk is like, Do you remember that story when you were growing up about the prince who waited until he was fully confident, positive before he went to rescue the princess? No. Nobody else does either. Like you won't remember it either. The stories, the things that we all remember are the challenging experiences.

00:20:47:08 - 00:21:05:12
Itamar Marani
Like we used to have a saying in the unit that an experience is a nightmare and past tense. Those are the experiences you remember. If you don't get to have the hard and go through it, you don't get to have those positive reflections of yourself and think waiting for things to get positive. You're just basically being a victim.

00:21:05:14 - 00:21:28:10
Itamar Marani
You're being captive to that external environment. For me, that would feel terrifying. Do you think I can only do things if I feel positive or if the environment is great, or if I feel really confident I would be written with anxiety because like, what if I don't feel good today? Well, I'm not do what I'm supposed to do, but having that sense of assurance that I can do something regardless if I feel positive or not, and then I'm going to do it.

00:21:28:12 - 00:21:42:00
Itamar Marani
Like for me, that gives me the ultimate peace. And paradoxically, I think that's what people are looking for when you try and do all these things to get themselves to feel positive, but you're looking outwards instead of inwards.

00:21:42:02 - 00:22:23:13
Alexander De Fina
So it's it does lot. I guess my question would be other circumstances where doing the work regardless might not be helpful. So I'll give I'll give an example. You know, someone's just got something tragic happened to their family. The both grandparents just died in a tragic accident, but they're supposed to go and give a talk, attend a meeting, do something on that given day under that sort of extreme circumstance, is there a benefit to sitting in the in the negative reaction, the trauma of of what's just happened and processing that and not going and doing the thing?

00:22:23:13 - 00:22:26:21
Alexander De Fina
Or is it just kind of put your helmet on and going to go to war anyway?

00:22:26:23 - 00:22:46:21
Itamar Marani
So it's a very interesting question. It's a very different topic than what we're talking about here because that's whole actual trauma, not just I'm in a bad mood today because I, I give myself there's let's call it the difference between acute acute instances like very severe like acute trauma, like somebody just died was a business, just went bankrupt, whatever it may be.

00:22:46:23 - 00:23:06:20
Itamar Marani
And this like a general level like, oh, I always just feel a bit negative or whatever. Maybe I'm not fully optimistic. There's this acute and chronic. Now with that said, like the way you phrase the question is like if you're actually at war or real war and someone dies next year, you're not going to stop and more because you're actually at war.

00:23:06:21 - 00:23:34:00
Itamar Marani
You need to go forward. Yeah, but the main thing I'm talking about here is but it's just a chronic it's on an acute like really heightened state of stress words and there's a lot of like somebody died or whatever it may be, But just like we live in a place like I let my, my dog run around the neighborhood like it's loud here, but around the corner like and if he gets hit by a car, recognizing that might happen, I guess I'm going to cancel my calls for the day.

00:23:34:01 - 00:23:42:15
Itamar Marani
Yeah, I mean, that's what it is on a general level. Not not everything's going to cause me to not do what I need to do.

00:23:42:17 - 00:24:00:16
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, that helps me understand. Earlier, when I was asking you about definitions, is defining negative thinking more as a chronic ongoing state of being rather than a acute reaction to something which is otherwise, you know, traumatic or quite significant.

00:24:00:18 - 00:24:04:14
Itamar Marani
Yeah, and thank you for clarifying that. That's a really well farewell said okay.

00:24:04:16 - 00:24:08:09
Alexander De Fina
It helps me understand it. Yeah. Cool.

00:24:08:11 - 00:24:16:12
Itamar Marani
All right. I want to also share one thing. That's a bit different. So have you heard about do you know who James Stockdale is? Any chance?

00:24:16:14 - 00:24:17:09
Alexander De Fina
No.

00:24:17:11 - 00:24:42:20
Itamar Marani
So he was a P.O.W.? I think he was the highest ranked naval officer that fell in the Vietnam War, and he gave a lot of interviews. And in one of them they asked him, was there any group that had the most amount of trouble of the P.O.W.s in the prisons? And he said it was optimistic. He said the ones who said we're going to be out by Christmas and then Christmas would come and Christians would go.

00:24:42:22 - 00:25:11:22
Itamar Marani
Then they'd say, We're going to be out by Easter. And he would come and he would go and then Thanksgiving and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart. And again, it's nothing like waiting for external conditions, waiting for something to say. And they're trying to be like overly optimistic, overly positive. And it's like I think the real beauty of it is not to be positive or optimistic, but to be resilient, because for me, that actually feels much more comfortable.

00:25:12:00 - 00:25:32:09
Itamar Marani
Then I tell myself, okay, I think I'm a bit fragile, but I'm very optimistic about what things will be in the future by surrounding or my environment. I'm going to be very positive of it. That's a lot less comfortable than say, you know what? Like whatever comes about, I can deal with it because I'm resilient and I think it's resilience over positive thinking.

00:25:32:11 - 00:25:37:14
Itamar Marani
That's the goal.

00:25:37:16 - 00:25:47:03
Alexander De Fina
Yeah. So there's like a contrast between like that, that sort of wishful thinking of we'll be out by Christmas.

00:25:47:05 - 00:26:03:00
Itamar Marani
Is the same like wishful thinking of like, oh, I hope I get it like this morning, which you will give me to a place where I can do it. I just wishful thinking that's trying to always try to be positive and hopeful about like things that are not within your control. You can't control always feeling positive. You can't control always feeling confident.

00:26:03:02 - 00:26:30:07
Itamar Marani
You know you can't control. You can always control to be courageous when you're scared, when you're not comfortable, courage is always available. You feeling positive and you feeling confident. That's not always about courage, always is displaying resilience. It is available as well. And the other thing that is like the bigger the better. And they also give you that sense of pride afterwards, which again gives a much deeper satisfaction than just feeling happy in the moment because I'm up for my morning routine or whatever it may be.

00:26:30:07 - 00:26:35:06
Alexander De Fina
It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, a lot of sense.

00:26:35:08 - 00:26:37:12
Itamar Marani
Do you have any other questions then?

00:26:37:14 - 00:26:47:00
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, I've got a question. So if I, if I put the label around what you're talking about as kind of like B.S. positivity.

00:26:47:02 - 00:26:48:08
Itamar Marani
Toxic, positive.

00:26:48:10 - 00:27:20:14
Alexander De Fina
Yeah. One thing I've seen in the entrepreneurial world is, is let's let's say it's the founder. His business is off to a great start. They're going to their first big pitch meeting, you know, Shark Tank sort of experience that like do you feel that transparency and honesty are a precursor to to being courageous? So a practical example person goes to the to the pitch deck meeting the city in front of a bunch of wealthy investors.

00:27:20:16 - 00:27:44:14
Alexander De Fina
And they just they're faking it till they make it. They're putting on a bit of an act. So I've been on the opposite side of people who are acting and talking in a very positive way. But there's a spidey sense. I'm like, Yeah, this whether it's the tonality, there's something going on. Look, I don't feel that you're as positive as you're make, but you're, you're I see you as acting positive or acting confident.

00:27:44:16 - 00:28:06:22
Alexander De Fina
Not actually confident, yeah. Whereas I would actually take them a lot more seriously if I said I'll be honest, I'm shitting myself right now. This is terrifying. I've never done a project or never done a pitch presentation before. This is totally I love my thing. I think my things got know great, great opportunity in the market. But this dynamic is new to me and that's how I'm feeling.

00:28:07:01 - 00:28:25:16
Alexander De Fina
I would actually feel like that person is being more honest with me and more likely to lead to a better outcome than the person who's just sort of faking it till they make it. Because often I feel like that they're faking it only to themselves and it's sort of self-defeating.

00:28:25:18 - 00:28:27:22
Itamar Marani
So your question is.

00:28:28:00 - 00:28:48:21
Alexander De Fina
The question is like, do you feel that honesty and transparency in the situations where people sort of like the toxic positivity is the precursor to being courageous, sort of like mean, you know what I feel like today?

00:28:48:23 - 00:29:19:16
Itamar Marani
Yeah, So it's an interesting one because I think it's absolutely also a courageous thing to say. I'm still going to keep a positive outlook. I'm still going to be optimistic about this, even though I'm not sure I'm going to be realistic, but I'm going to keep it a positive, positive outlook on this. Then you can say to yourself both like, okay, there's logically a 30% of this unicorn actually happening, and I get that logically and that is a bit challenging, but I'm going to like force myself to have a positive outlook on this and not just be a negative person all the time around this.

00:29:19:18 - 00:29:41:08
Itamar Marani
But again, what I'm saying is I'm taking action. I'm actively going to just decide, have a positive outlook. I'm not going to wait passively for me to feel positive and then do it. But again, a lot of the all these morning routines, all this kind of stuff, all the work people try to do on themselves, it's a hopefully I get to the point where I feel positive and then I'll do it is very different.

00:29:41:10 - 00:29:57:17
Itamar Marani
So I again, like being an active again. The reason courage and resilience are positive because they allow you to constantly be active. You're not passively waiting until you feel confident or positive or whatever. You're just in a positive thinking mode. That's a big differentiator.

00:29:57:19 - 00:30:26:04
Alexander De Fina
That helps it. Putting a number on it like that, like being transparent and saying there's a 30% chance that this works out, but I'm going to still be positive about it and pragmatically do the things regardless which is which. I think the sort of whole dream believe, achieve sort of mindset is a little bit loose on details. And I think maybe we can sort of fall into a trap of just kind of believe it to be true and act like it's true as opposed to being honest with ourselves.

00:30:26:06 - 00:30:27:06
Alexander De Fina
Yeah.

00:30:27:08 - 00:30:51:08
Itamar Marani
I remember I was giving a talk this year and it was in front of a big crowd of people that were all from Asia, and it was the first time I had given to an all Asia crowd. And the leader of the conference was like, Hey Tim are like, I really love your stuff. This crowd is perhaps not as it's called, like advancing the mindset stuff, and their awareness of it is there are people in the States or in Europe, which is why I like we'll see how people receive it.

00:30:51:10 - 00:31:06:18
Itamar Marani
And so I did the talk. It went great. And then we opened up Q&A and one of the ladies are asking questions like, Oh, I also want to do some public speaking, but I'm really nervous. And it's like, What do I do about it? And I looked around and I was like, So can I tell you a secret?

00:31:06:18 - 00:31:24:17
Itamar Marani
And she was like, What? Like I'm nervous right now. And I think everybody just started laughing, but it's fine. And that's the whole point. It's like, I'm not waiting for myself to feel fully comfortable and fully confident. So you're not waiting to feel like, Oh, well, I'm in a positive mood. Everyone's giving me such amazing vibes here. Now I'm going to go on stage.

00:31:24:18 - 00:31:36:06
Itamar Marani
It's like, you know, regardless of how I feel, I'm going to do my thing. I don't have to wait to feel a certain way. I think that's the big thing. And again, you don't have to passively wait until you feel a certain way to do the thing.

00:31:36:08 - 00:31:36:23
Alexander De Fina
Yeah.

00:31:37:01 - 00:31:41:00
Itamar Marani
That's the big deal.

00:31:41:02 - 00:32:08:20
Alexander De Fina
And, and reframing. So like a situation where I fell into that comparison trap is I was invited to a pitch deck event, which I've never raised money from other people for Alibaba, an Alibaba venture fund, and for budget details, I was ill prepared and I've got, you know, one little fitness company and I'm sort of right behind a global fintech company and sort of right after me is another big global company.

00:32:08:20 - 00:32:35:14
Alexander De Fina
I'm thinking I'm going to stand out my dog's balls, I'm going to be standing on stage. I don't know how to run these events or what to say and how to how to do it, because I sat there and listened to the people presenting before me where it was, you know, we on series F of whatever sort of thing, and we're the Airbnb of I realized, hang on a second, I'll be comparing myself to these people and feeling a lack of confidence because I put them on this pedestal.

00:32:35:16 - 00:32:50:14
Alexander De Fina
Actually, I've got a profitable thing and if you're just looking at dollars and cents, I'm ahead of these guys right now because they're still trying to get to profitability. And that reframe helped me actually think more positively because I was stuck in that sort of comparison trap of of how I was feeling before that.

00:32:50:16 - 00:33:17:03
Itamar Marani
I would say this and even beyond that, what if you didn't care about that comparison? Like you didn't feel positive because of that, you weren't able to make that briefing. You just said, you know what, Like this discomfort is temporary, but the pride I feel for doing the right thing despite the discomfort that's going to last forever. And I think that's really perhaps lost in translation when I said like when my officers told us that in Hebrew, it wasn't that it was this pain, you're like, discomfort is temporary, pride is forever.

00:33:17:05 - 00:33:35:01
Itamar Marani
So when you're feeling that discomfort, that's your opportunity for eternal pride if you do the right thing, because you will always be able to look back at it and say, Wow, I felt so uncomfortable there. There was a part of me that was just yelling for me to not do it, but I did it anyway because it was the right thing.

00:33:35:01 - 00:33:38:13
Itamar Marani
And I'm so proud of myself for having done that. That's really.

00:33:38:13 - 00:33:57:02
Alexander De Fina
Helpful. Yeah, I just I just as you said that, I realized I was still in the comparison trap. You know, previously. Housekeeping. But I'm here. They're there. Then I had a I remodeled that and thought, Actually, I'm here and you're there, and that's why I'm going to feel confident. But I realized I'm still in that comparison trap. And if I was just.

00:33:57:02 - 00:34:00:16
Itamar Marani
Trying to gain confidence. Yeah, gain perspective, I was thinking.

00:34:00:18 - 00:34:25:23
Alexander De Fina
Yeah, if I just if I just siloed myself into into my own reality and said, this is a awkward experience, this is novel to me, I feel as if I'm being audited or there's judgment about my business understanding or the business itself. But I'm here anyway doing this thing, and I'm prepared to the best of my ability, and I should be proud of just being in the arena.

00:34:26:01 - 00:34:27:13
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

00:34:27:15 - 00:34:30:20
Alexander De Fina
Regardless, that would have been far more helpful in hindsight.

00:34:30:22 - 00:34:50:03
Itamar Marani
Yeah. Like the the simplest and the most elegant way I've ever heard of the say because apparently some skateboarder who's like ten years old and like, crushes everything sorry, like snowboarding and everything. And a reporter once asked them, like, what do you do if you're scared? And he said, I just do it scared. And it's exactly that, that simple and elegant.

00:34:50:04 - 00:35:05:20
Itamar Marani
It's like you just do it scared. And that's how you can be proud of not trying to say, How do I get myself to not be scared to be more positive? Not like that's where people are fooling each other. It's not. How do I get myself to not feel scared sometimes about I just do a scare and I'm really proud of myself.

00:35:05:20 - 00:35:09:11
Itamar Marani
When I sat and done that, I did a scared.

00:35:09:12 - 00:35:18:16
Alexander De Fina
Who would have done? The ten year old snowboarder was such an oracle. It's so true. Just. Yeah, just do it. Anyways, that was good. Yeah, that's fantastic.

00:35:18:18 - 00:35:19:20
Itamar Marani
Well, I know the question. Thanks for.

00:35:19:20 - 00:35:26:00
Alexander De Fina
That. No, that's, that's, that's actually really helped. Really helped me look back at that situation with a different lens.

00:35:26:02 - 00:35:32:19
Itamar Marani
Cool. So want to kind of wrap this one up a little bit. So what are your main takeaways? When we talked about.

00:35:32:21 - 00:36:03:11
Alexander De Fina
My take away would be it helps me to have those definitions is just defining that negative thinking is more of a sort of chronic perpetual state, not a otherwise obvious reaction to an external circumstance like the traumatic event that happened in the here and now. And using some of your words, know what helps me understand it even better is rather than the positive or negative would be more effective or ineffective.

00:36:03:13 - 00:36:15:12
Alexander De Fina
That really helps me sort of understand where where my ineffective perpetual ways of thinking versus labeling them as positive or negative.

00:36:15:14 - 00:36:42:02
Itamar Marani
Yeah, Yeah. And where else. And I think that's the whole point. Again, like if you're trying to achieve certain things and you're after a certain results, thinking in terms of this is effective in getting me towards my outcomes, I desired outcomes or is it ineffective? It's a very simple litmus test. So to kind of recap things on my end, first off, like don't wait to feel positive, don't ask yourself, how do I feel more positive?

00:36:42:04 - 00:37:07:07
Itamar Marani
Instead, recognize that you don't have to feel positive in order to do things that, as Alex said, are effective and are going to get you towards what you actually want out of life. That's one to recognize that you actually are by trying to level up your mood in all these ways, you actually give yourself a lot of anxiety because you tell yourself this story that unless my mood is high, I can't do the things that I know I should be doing.

00:37:07:09 - 00:37:42:02
Itamar Marani
So you feel like a lesser version of yourself because House of Wait, I can't do this even without it. And every time you're doing that behavior, you're just fortifying that belief in yourself, that negative belief, so to speak. Like if you find yourself in a spiral or if you know someone's in a spiral going from one trend to another, whether it's therapy, whether it's endless coaching, whether it's a new form of therapy, or whether it's healing journeys, ayahuasca is a morning routine that's a new on testosterone, which is the current thing that is jumping from trend to trend to trend to trend, hoping that something will finally make them feel good enough to do the

00:37:42:02 - 00:38:20:08
Itamar Marani
thing recognized. You're probably trying to optimize for that. And that's the problem. And again, the biggest thing is that positivity, feeling positive and feeling optimistic and feeling great about things that might not always be available. But courage and resiliency are always an option. Those are things you always can choose and recognizing that can put you in such a position of power to recognize that I have an internal control here that again, I don't have to wait for the weather to be perfect for me to run.

00:38:20:10 - 00:38:34:19
Itamar Marani
And I don't have to feel anxious in the morning like, Oh wow, I hope the weather's good today. But I know that like, you know what? I'm going to run even if it rains on me. And if it snows, I'm just going to go and I'm feeling great. So much calm and you recognize you don't have to be a victim to that feeling.

00:38:34:19 - 00:38:58:11
Itamar Marani
Again, that part of all of us of this want things to be positive and easy. I don't have to be victim to that. I can take control out of. So the question I would love to leave you guys with a day is where are you waiting to feel positive or where you wasting a ton of effort and trying to get yourself to feel positive instead of just deciding that you're capable of doing something even when you don't feel that way?

00:38:58:13 - 00:39:33:02
Itamar Marani
What could you achieve if you decided that you didn't need to feel positive in order to take action, but that instead you take pride in doing something not despite, but because you don't feel at your very, very best that you could be proud of and say that I did it anyways and I got the results. So if this story resonates with you and perhaps you see yourself in that guy that we spoke about from the arena and you keep putting things off until you feel better, or as we get a lot of energy and trying to make yourself better instead of actually doing the thing the arena could be an amazing place for you to

00:39:33:02 - 00:39:52:12
Itamar Marani
uncover any of those unhelpful assumptions about life and how things should be. So you can not only achieve more, but just again, feel better about yourself while you're doing so. You don't are victim to external circumstances. And if you love to check that out, we have all the links below. Aside from that, I hope today was helpful. Guys, thank you very much and we'll see you on the next episode.