Why Setting Boundaries is a Waste of Time and What to do Instead | Elite Performance Podcast #36

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:05:22
Itamar Marani
I think one of the most exhausting experiences we have in life is when we're trying to upkeep our values against people who don't have the shared values.

00:00:06:12 - 00:00:19:21
Dr. Emil
Hello and welcome to the Elite Foundation's podcast. Today we're going to be doing something a little bit different. We're going to be talking about boundaries. Itamar, hit me.

00:00:20:10 - 00:00:46:20
Itamar Marani
All right. So the reason this came about is this is a problem I see with a lot of clients. And then we also wanted to talk about this. Yeah. And we didn't have one big mega case. They like this person. This was the only thing that changed. And then everything went through the roof. But this is a crucial piece that I've seen with pretty much everybody who's had a big turnaround to really establish boundaries and to not have other things that they shouldn't have in their life, way them down. And that's really what we want to talk about today.

00:00:47:22 - 00:01:07:13
Dr. Emil
Yeah, I think this came about from me saying, you know, one of the biggest things I've kind of got from this situation of, you know, from meeting the arena before Christmas and interacting with you in general has been that I've set much better boundaries and you kind of said something like boundaries are bullshit or boundaries. It's not about boundaries.

00:01:08:10 - 00:01:12:23
Itamar Marani
It's not about setting boundaries and trying to enforce them. That's what I think the the main problem is.

00:01:13:14 - 00:01:23:21
Dr. Emil
Yeah, yeah. So we'll get into that. But that's how it started. Similar to the values thing, I was like, I've been working on my values, my values, basing your values of bullshit.

00:01:24:14 - 00:01:27:22
Itamar Marani
I don't think I said it like that. I think it was a bit more gentle, perhaps. I think.

00:01:27:22 - 00:01:30:12
Dr. Emil
I think things are okay. Can I be honest with you?

00:01:30:22 - 00:01:32:08
Itamar Marani
Exactly. Yeah. It was one of those is.

00:01:32:14 - 00:01:34:17
Dr. Emil
Your values are bullshit. That's how it went down.

00:01:35:08 - 00:01:37:07
Itamar Marani
That's right. That kind of it. It. That could have been it.

00:01:37:24 - 00:02:14:05
Dr. Emil
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, this may be a whole other podcast, but this level of feedback seems really, really savage. But I kind of feel the more to the point feedback is, the more constructive it can be without worrying too much about offending people, especially with the kind of relationship we have, the quicker you can grow. And I always say feedback is a two way thing. It's one the person giving it and they do have to consider things, but also the person receiving it can create a space where they can really upgrade the level of feedback they receive by not taking things personally or emotionally.

00:02:14:22 - 00:02:45:09
Itamar Marani
But I think in order to do that, you have to establish a desired outcome, a mutual desired outcome. So in the military, you get very you start giving very brutal feedback very quickly and there's no thank you's or pleas because no time for that, because it's very, very clear that we want to be able to save each other's asses if something goes wrong and we have to communicate very crisp. Now it's like the same. Here is the friendship. We have really established that we want what's best for each other as friends. And because that's the underlying premise, that's easy for us to give each other feedback because we know the intention there is. It's a positive one.

00:02:45:17 - 00:02:45:23
Dr. Emil
Yeah.

00:02:46:04 - 00:02:46:14
Itamar Marani
You know, I mean.

00:02:47:04 - 00:02:48:06
Dr. Emil
Yeah, yeah.

00:02:48:06 - 00:02:49:13
Itamar Marani
And then that is a different part.

00:02:50:01 - 00:02:51:15
Dr. Emil
That is a different that's a whole discussion. That's, that's.

00:02:51:19 - 00:02:52:11
Itamar Marani
Like the boundaries.

00:02:53:01 - 00:02:56:04
Dr. Emil
Back to how shit my boundaries are. No, I'm joking. I'm joking.

00:02:57:14 - 00:03:58:10
Itamar Marani
All right, so this is the point I want to make that I feel that setting boundaries and trying to to really enforce them, let's call it is wasted energy. You're wasting your energy on let's call the symptom, not the root cause. The reality is that boundaries with others are just a downstream effect of clarifying who you really are. If you don't focus on boundaries, I'm trying to set them and enforce them, but instead you focus on really defining, getting clear on who you are and what you want to accept in your life and what you're not. You actually want need to enforce them as much because they'll be so clear to others. It's like how I think you've spoken about this before. If somebody says, I'm not really in the mood for cake right now, people would be like, I have some cake. But if I say no, I don't have any desserts before 6 p.m.. Quebec. Okay, He doesn't have anything. That's pretty clear. No need to test his boundaries. I need to push it. And I think there's a lot of wasted energy that people are going to try to enforce boundaries instead of making very clear what they actually want. And then people can see that you're not clear. So. Okay, let me let me test that. Let me see if I can rattle that a bit.

00:03:59:11 - 00:04:32:19
Dr. Emil
Yeah. Yeah. So you're saying that if you're not clear on what you want and yes, who you are by extension, then other people will sense that will feel that will identify that and will test it and push it. So by setting a boundary first, like I'm not going to eat dessert rather than having this kind of this, this definition of yourself, this view of yourself that, you know, for, for whatever reason, that's not something you do. It's very it's a flimsy boundary. You're not convinced by it, therefore no one else is convinced by it. Is that is that about right?

00:04:34:17 - 00:04:35:02
Itamar Marani
No.

00:04:35:18 - 00:04:36:01
Dr. Emil
That's a.

00:04:36:08 - 00:04:36:18
Itamar Marani
Bit different.

00:04:37:08 - 00:04:38:20
Dr. Emil
That this is why This is why I guess.

00:04:39:09 - 00:04:52:24
Itamar Marani
The way it's a it's again, at the very, very, very core of it, you have to be clear in who you are, what you want out of life. So you have to be clear on what you want in life. From that, you distill who you are, what kind of person you want to be. From that you just tell your boundaries.

00:04:53:12 - 00:05:41:13
Itamar Marani
Now, most people don't even know what they want out of life, let alone who they need to be in order to have that. So they try to set these boundaries, but they don't really they're not really bought into these boundaries. They're trying to say that I should have these boundaries. Oh, I should not drink or I should not eat this. But they can't really explain why. And people with this blink test, you can kind of see it. You know, people test your boundaries because they want something. They want you to do something that they can enjoy as well. Drink with them, eat with them. Honest. Also give you unsolicited advice, whatever it may be. They want to enforce something onto your life. But if they see an opportunity, they're they're more likely to try to engage it. If they're so clear that there's no opportunity here and they'll just know these is this is who he is. This is what he doesn't accept in life. Okay. Yeah, that's fair. I'm not I see. I feel no, no need to waste energy trying to to challenge that.

00:05:42:08 - 00:06:30:10
Dr. Emil
I feel we're saying the same thing. But, you know, you've thought it through more. But when you explain it, then I'm like, that's what I'm trying to say. So it's good that you've mentioned that. And actually a kind of I suppose a example of that is like when you don't want to, you know, go on to go to a party or something and you say, come to the party. No, I can't or not tonight. And that's kind of a boundary. Fine. But if you say, no, I can't because I'm a little bit tired and you start kind of giving these bullshit excuses. People see that as a gap and they're like, Oh, but you don't. You only need to stay for a little bit or, you know, you can do the work you wanted to do tomorrow. Whereas if you just like that. No, not for me to say thanks. Don't try and fluff around. Don't show the weakness. Don't show the the uncertainty perhaps.

00:06:31:03 - 00:06:40:20
Itamar Marani
Yeah, but again, if there'll be weakness, if you have an internal weakness, if you're not exactly settled into that idea. And that's got to stop. It's not. What do you really want? Yeah, that's, I think the big thing.

00:06:41:16 - 00:06:59:06
Dr. Emil
And you're going to go into this now, but you kind of have to you have to start somewhere, you know, you have to almost start by setting, I don't know, is it a cyclical thing? You kind of set the boundary and then look at who you want to be or look at who you want to be and then set the boundaries. You kind of.

00:07:00:00 - 00:07:40:09
Itamar Marani
Be option B, So I think that's the best way to do it. You really get clear on who you are and from there on, the boundaries are going to just happen because it's so obvious to you what you want. You don't want now labor this way in a tiny, tiny little way. It is cyclical because if you don't have any boundaries in your life, you won't have the time to really establish where you want to be. And think about this stuff. If you're just allowing people to take your time and have negative influences on you all the time, then you won't be able to get your head out of the water and really like understand what's going on. So it is that a little bit. But the primary thing is to really get clear on what you want and figure out who you need to be in order to have that and then understand, okay, this person, what were their boundaries be And so you can really buy into it.

00:07:41:07 - 00:08:14:15
Dr. Emil
So then just to push that a little bit further, you've done, you know what you want, who you need to be to to achieve that, and then you almost need to see how that manifests in the world as in how does that look compared to a party? How does that look compared to a coffee? How does that look compared to things? So that's what I mean, kind of like enormous need to make these decisions. You can't figure out all the examples straight away. Like even though, yes, you want this and to do that you need to do this, but then you have to figure out how that fits with the specific boundaries and cases your own age.

00:08:14:16 - 00:08:35:07
Itamar Marani
Yes. Yeah. I think Emerson said it best. I don't remember the exact quote, but he basically said a man who grasped tactics will be lost once you diverge from the path. But the man who understands principles can apply tactics at will. And it's the same thing if you understand from a principle level, look, what are you interested in? What are you not interested in your life figuring that out on the spot is really easy. Really simple.

00:08:35:13 - 00:08:45:09
Dr. Emil
Yeah. You're going to give some examples now, so I think that will help to kind of give practical advice in how this might look. Right?

00:08:46:03 - 00:09:38:01
Itamar Marani
Yeah. So here's an interesting example. So one of my clients, he does consulting work and he asked me, you know, what, like how do you deal with all the requests that you get from people from asking for advice, for advice, and so on and so on. I get in data with my inbox and I was like, Take a guess how many requests I've gotten this year. And he was like, hundreds. I was like, I've already gotten one requests from a former client asking me for 50 minutes. He said, What do you mean? And I was like, I think it is clear that people understand these are my boundaries. I'm not just going to devalue myself and ask a lot of times about, again, this isn't a great example of how to do this, but to establishing that fact that if you really are sure in yourself, it shines through people will know and you don't have to actually enforce about it. I think that's the first thing I really want to get across, that you don't have to enforce boundaries if you're really clear on them.

00:09:39:09 - 00:10:24:12
Dr. Emil
I think we had this exact conversation a few weeks back. This wasn't me. No, this wasn't you know, this wasn't we had a very similar conversation. And, you know, I said a similar thing. You know, people are asking for things and how do you deal with it? And you kind of said the same thing. And then I said, okay, well, what the hell? Like, why is this happening to me kind of thing? And you said, well, on some level you invite this. And that was like a baseball bat to the face of like, Oh, I understand now. And then I saw it. It just suddenly became crystal clear. It was like seeing the Matrix all of a sudden, like I can kind of see the event which caused blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which, which created the that boundary challenge, shall we.

00:10:24:12 - 00:10:25:21
Itamar Marani
Say. Why do you think you were inviting it.

00:10:27:04 - 00:11:11:19
Dr. Emil
Oh, people pleasing scarcity of opportunity. So wanting to feel as many opportunities as possible and wanting self-worth by having people asking things of me because I wasn't confidence in the selfless. So I needed people to want me to need me. So I would be like, Yeah, I'm fucking important. Because you can imagine like your example, like only one person asked you for advice in 12 months, like lesser people would be like, maybe no one gives a fuck, right? Maybe no one respects, you know, that's why. No, it wants advice, but it takes like a very strong, confident, self-assured person to be like, This is the reason. Because I've shut it down a bit at the root.

00:11:12:23 - 00:11:33:09
Itamar Marani
Yeah, it's interesting. So I want to ask you a follow up question to that. You were saying that you were opening these kind of doors so that people will ask you, were you subconsciously hoping they'll ask you, even though you'd say no, because then you feel this, like I said, no to options, I said no to people. That question And that means and desired in some way.

00:11:33:09 - 00:12:08:08
Dr. Emil
No, no. It was a it was a scarcity thing, a self-worth thing where I was worried that I wouldn't be able to succeed without, you know, without connections, without without interactions, without pleasing people, without people pleasing. And then when the actual repercussions happened, which I kind of didn't connect initially, where I have lots of people asking for lots of things, I was like, right. Like, I can't like now this is suddenly come to light that if I want to succeed as to who I want to be, I can't field everything. I can't deal with everything. So I need to start saying no.

00:12:09:01 - 00:12:14:01
Itamar Marani
You okay, so here's a big thing is that only can't. Also, you don't need to coming to that recognition.

00:12:16:01 - 00:12:41:13
Dr. Emil
So yeah one I can't physically which was probably what you know what started off the oh shit I need to fix this And then to then you get to the realization, then I got to the realization of, of more abundance of like I need to and I need to start being more intentional with this. And then I kind of started to come up with this concept of like, call it intentional networking or whatever like that, where you're just more yet more intentional about it.

00:12:41:13 - 00:12:50:21
Dr. Emil
And then that's how I've kind of processed what you've said. But yeah, it's essentially I was inviting it. I was 100% invited in out of gone.

00:12:51:13 - 00:12:56:00
Itamar Marani
Do you remember what we said about what kind of people you should hang out with? Are we allowed to say this on air? I mean.

00:12:57:15 - 00:12:59:18
Dr. Emil
How do I remember? What did I say?

00:12:59:23 - 00:13:11:15
Itamar Marani
It's recognizing. That's like if you're trying to do exceptional things in your life, you don't have room for unexceptional people. That's just the reality of it.

00:13:11:15 - 00:13:44:16
Dr. Emil
Yeah. I mean, you know, for sure. And, you know, that's not even that. That's essentially what essential intentional networking is. And on a very, very understands level, there's the sets and interactions which drain energy and which make you feel like shit and which don't add value to your life. And then there are certain interactions which lights a fire in your fucking soul and make you feel amazing. And as an introvert, when I gain energy from an interaction, I'm like, Oh wow, okay, that was powerful. That was incredible. And then I kind of realized, okay, how can I find more of these? Because this is now my standard.

00:13:45:06 - 00:13:50:01
Itamar Marani
So I think also like the big thing and finding more of those, you have to eliminate everything that doesn't do that. You can't.

00:13:50:01 - 00:13:59:24
Dr. Emil
Have everything. People. Exactly. And now that's kind of the realization is, you know, by saying yes to everything you're saying no to a hell of a lot of things.

00:14:00:15 - 00:14:01:12
Itamar Marani
Yeah.

00:14:01:12 - 00:14:16:08
Dr. Emil
Which yeah. But then once you start, like zooming out perspective, you're like, okay, I spent 50% of my time with training interactions and 50% with amazing ones. Like why 5050? But why not 95 energizing actions?

00:14:16:14 - 00:14:33:06
Itamar Marani
Again, I think it's because you're not clear in what interactions you need and what serves you. And again, that's what I'm saying. The moment you can really get clear on what you want out of life, you can set your priorities. The moment you can set your priorities, the boundaries can just happen and space.

00:14:33:17 - 00:14:34:05
Dr. Emil
I wonder if.

00:14:34:05 - 00:14:34:16
Itamar Marani
This isn't like.

00:14:34:16 - 00:14:50:06
Dr. Emil
You know, it's not that I don't like it. It's just this this feels like it feels robotic and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Like I'm all about the cyborg, but it just it's a mere morsels. It just feels like visit. Yeah, just say what you want. Because I didn't feel that that was the case for me.

00:14:50:22 - 00:15:38:16
Itamar Marani
Like, I think you were clear on what you want. Agreed. But I say what you want. That was a big issue. You weren't clear what you want. So let's put it this way. Let's say we women you were having discussion. We're having, let's say, an argument over something. If I'm absolutely certain about the facts and I know my side of it and I'm like, this is a fact and this is just truth. And you have no idea what you're talking about. I have that confidence. I'll voice it out if I don't have confidence in what I'm saying because I'm not really assured of it, then I'll probably take a back seat and let you challenge me. I'm saying you weren't extremely confident and assured about what you actually want, and therefore whenever somebody would challenge that, you would be willing to accept it. You know what? Maybe I do want to say, I'll let you do this. Maybe I do want to hang out with these people or whatever it may be. I'm saying that's the thing. Once you have assurance and really what you want, you're more confident to speak up.

00:15:38:16 - 00:16:06:04
Dr. Emil
But this is what I think the cyclical nature comes in, because I don't think people decide what they want like that. I think they decide what they want and then they see how the boundaries and interactions and real life scenarios fit in with that. And then they go back and refine what they want and they go back and, you know, we recheck their boundaries and then it kind of goes back and forth because for me, it didn't happen overnight. It's been an ongoing process and it will continue to be an ongoing process. And I make mistakes.

00:16:06:04 - 00:16:43:13
Itamar Marani
I agree with you on the high level, but I think there needs to be added context to it. So I think the stress testing it, so to speak, instead of going out there and testing your boundaries and all that, that would probably take honestly, 10% of the effort. I think 90% of the effort that will create 100% of the result will be really focusing and establishing what you want, getting clear on who you want to be and what you want. And that's the thing that most people don't do. And unless you do that, you can't actually stress test anything. And that's why I say this is what I always what I get clear and who you are, who you are, what you want to do in your life. And then the boundaries will kind of come from there.

00:16:44:02 - 00:16:45:14
Dr. Emil
Most people don't know that.

00:16:45:24 - 00:16:48:18
Itamar Marani
And just most people don't know that. Sorry, I good.

00:16:49:04 - 00:17:00:15
Dr. Emil
I was just going to say and telling people to figure it out like there's a gap there. Like it's not something that you say, Oh shit, I should have just figured it out. Like, okay, give me 2 minutes. Let me figure this out. Like, it takes time.

00:17:00:15 - 00:17:17:24
Itamar Marani
Okay, So this is I agree. But why is it wrong to tell people, listen, this is important, so take the time and put in the work and then you can have the rewards afterwards. Like, I don't honestly like that. That's what I'm saying. Agreed. But not saying it's easy. I'm not saying that figuring stuff is I'm saying it's necessary.

00:17:17:24 - 00:17:18:16
Dr. Emil
But I'm trying to.

00:17:19:00 - 00:17:33:01
Itamar Marani
Put all the energy people waste on it. Sorry, I just got to go to a little bit of a rant. But all the time people and time and effort and energy and angst, people waste and trying to effectively enforce their boundaries could be much better spent elsewhere. That's what I'm saying.

00:17:33:20 - 00:18:03:19
Dr. Emil
Agreed. My point is, in the real world, right where we live, it doesn't happen like that and it inevitably becomes a cyclical thing because people aren't going to spend, you know, three days in meditation trying to figure out exactly what they want and how much is just societal programing and parental influence and, you know, validation from their peers and bullshit and how much they truly, truly want. It's a cyclical thing. Exactly. Like were reading it right. It goes round and loops and you peel off the layers of the onion like Shrek, which you've never seen.

00:18:05:08 - 00:18:07:19
Itamar Marani
And still I'm telling you that I've never seen Shrek.

00:18:07:23 - 00:18:08:17
Dr. Emil
It's ridiculous.

00:18:08:22 - 00:18:11:04
Itamar Marani
And when my son gets to that age, I'll watch it with him.

00:18:11:13 - 00:18:40:13
Dr. Emil
Exactly. Exactly. And he'll be like ten more ways than you from it. But like, what you want is the top layer has a certain set of boundaries, but then you peel to the next layer and it changes like what you want changes as you mature, as you grow, as you figure it out, and therefore the boundaries will change as well. Like it's like in real life. I mean, maybe I'm talking from my experience, maybe I'm shit at this, maybe I haven't dedicated enough time to this. Maybe I'm still not crystal clear.

00:18:41:04 - 00:19:29:10
Itamar Marani
I can tell you this. I'm speaking of this less from theory and more from listening. I do with my clients all the time. A lot of them have to establish boundaries and it's a lot of issue that a lot of them have. And when I've tried at the beginning to say, okay, what are quick wins? What are boundaries you should set in your life? And I was just beginning coaching. It never worked. There was always that layer of resistance. Like, I don't want to do that though, because then like this, people judging me, like I don't want to. I don't want to be an unpleasant person. These are polite people, so why should I leave this mastermind or exit this WhatsApp group or leave this group of friends that I've known for a long time? Yeah, that doesn't work. Once we actually establish, okay, forget about this for a second, what do you really want out of life? And they say, okay, this is what I want. And we figure that out and we nail it. And again, it gets refined. But when need on like a basic version of V1.

00:19:29:22 - 00:19:30:03
Dr. Emil
Yeah.

00:19:30:14 - 00:19:52:16
Itamar Marani
Then we can say, okay, honest perspective. If somebody wanted this, this V1 of what they want out of life, can they pull it off while also having this in their life? These people, this WhatsApp group that mastermind these big boundaries with parents, the family members? Yeah, with contractors, whatever it may be, Is this possible? And then they're like, Dang, that's not possible.

00:19:53:09 - 00:19:56:11
Itamar Marani
I think that gives them the realization that, okay, I need to live up to this.

00:19:58:08 - 00:20:11:08
Dr. Emil
Agreed 100%. We're in exactly the same page. Yeah, this one set of boundaries, those boundaries and lock them to the two new boundaries. Boundaries. They unlock these three layers of an onion. I feel we're on the same page.

00:20:12:22 - 00:20:39:06
Itamar Marani
I, I feel like. I feel like I want to give a lot more emphasis to getting clear on who you are and being comfortable with who you are. I think the comfortable maybe is like the fact that what I haven't been speaking as, I think the stress testing it, it's less honestly. I give it less weight. I think once you do, once you get clear on what you want, once you get comfortable with who you are, and being that person that you're trying to be, the rest of it, the stress testing and all of that, it's like it's it doesn't way as much.

00:20:39:15 - 00:21:02:21
Dr. Emil
So so let's let's reframe it from stress testing and then potentially move on to the second example. But let's reframe it from that stress testing to it to expanding to the limits of your current capability and then living those boundaries and then those boundaries and lock new limits of capabilities, not stress testing to check. It's literally working at your limits, which then unlocks the next level.

00:21:03:13 - 00:21:05:17
Itamar Marani
What do you mean by boundaries? What do you think are the boundaries that you hit?

00:21:06:15 - 00:21:46:14
Dr. Emil
Well, like, for example, five years ago I left it not seven years ago now, whatever. I left a WhatsApp group because it was just like they were they were taking the piss out of me for posting on Instagram. Right? And lo, joke's on them. And like, that was me. I knew I wanted to be something and I had some boundaries and I acted on them like who I want to be now, seven years later, as a totally different person, like, you know, WhatsApp groups, I'm super easy to leave. Like, that's a very strong boundary, but there's new boundaries now, which I'm kind of trying to figure out. And so there's a new version of me, and I imagine in five, ten years time there'll be another new version which requires new boundaries.

00:21:47:19 - 00:21:51:15
Itamar Marani
Now to have your permission and challenge you on that.

00:21:51:15 - 00:21:52:23
Dr. Emil
Always, always.

00:21:52:24 - 00:22:47:06
Itamar Marani
All right. So I don't think I think it's less honestly to do with a new version of you. It's more to do with you becoming more and more comfortable in your own skin and not seeking out validation and all that. Now, when you go to higher, higher levels and now you're not networking, and I tell you once that we were all of a sudden is not those seven guys from back home. We never did anything. But now they're other seven figure, eight figure entrepreneurs. Then you feel a bit awkward about setting your boundaries because you're not sure your worth is up there yet. And I think it really is about the more the stronger of an internal relationship you have with yourself, the easier it will be to fully understand what you want and what your boundaries are, regardless of the surroundings. And I don't think that changes that much over time. It really is. That's the key domino. Once you're able to be at peace with the person you are, that's what really makes all the difference.

00:22:47:06 - 00:22:51:17
Dr. Emil
So as soon as you can live your true self, you're sort of like authentic as fuck.

00:22:51:19 - 00:23:03:23
Itamar Marani
So yeah, it's it's not that you're sort of authentic as fuck and all that kind of jazz. It's just that what others say or how they will judge you for these boundaries, it doesn't really matter. So that's why it's not difficult enforcing them.

00:23:05:10 - 00:23:17:05
Dr. Emil
I was saying that tongue in cheek because like, that's like what you're saying is entirely correct. I just don't think people can move from where they are now to that like one step, one like workshop over a weekend.

00:23:17:21 - 00:24:02:17
Itamar Marani
I'll say this man, the proof is in the pudding. I can tell you that, like, I've seen people do this, I've seen people do this, and I've seen the change it caused. Uncomfortable for them at first. Absolutely. But they still do it. And so they're always going to be let's put it this way, no one's going to be 100% self-assured. There's always going to be a little bit of doubt. That's a courage gap. You've got to jump. And once you understand how what you really want and you start to be like fairly at peace with yourself, you can make that level of courage jump and just say this isn't for me anymore. To be really clear about it, I think it be. And honestly, like, I don't love how you're talking about this, right? Because you're saying this is hard. And I guess but this is what's necessary. And I think that's the big realization.

00:24:04:01 - 00:24:24:16
Dr. Emil
Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm trying to figure it out basically, like this is not me being obtrusive or what's the word obstructive. It's me literally, like trying to visualize that kind of end goal and maybe I'm visualizing it wrong, maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. But yeah.

00:24:25:12 - 00:24:43:20
Itamar Marani
I think you're thinking about externally. You're saying, okay, when I email from five years from now, he'll have different goals. So those goals will have to be protected in different ways. You know, I do have set different boundaries. Yeah, Yeah, I don't think so. I think if a meal in five years from now I was fully at peace with himself, he would be able to create the boundaries with the same amount of ease.

00:24:44:00 - 00:24:49:03
Itamar Marani
Forget about what they are, but they establish them in force with the same amount of ease as a meal from 20 years from now. 30 years from.

00:24:49:03 - 00:24:49:14
Dr. Emil
Now. Yeah.

00:24:50:02 - 00:24:51:03
Itamar Marani
And that's the key point.

00:24:52:04 - 00:24:59:03
Dr. Emil
And I suppose what I'm saying is going from normal or whatever, it's a fully self-assured is.

00:25:01:01 - 00:25:03:00
Itamar Marani
Is that's a process. Yeah.

00:25:03:12 - 00:25:06:08
Dr. Emil
That's what I mean that's, that, it's not like flicker.

00:25:06:08 - 00:25:42:03
Itamar Marani
So Yeah. But okay. But I think the way you go from let's call it how you said normal to fully self-assured, that's not by establishing boundaries. The boundaries are a byproduct of you doing that. Having done that already. Yeah. And that's what I think the problem is. People focus too much on enforcing boundaries, and that's like a step number three. It just happens as a natural byproduct instead of focusing really establishing who they are and then being comfortable with, then establishing why they should be comfortable with that, why it's valid for them to be comfortable with that and peace with themselves. And that's what I'm saying. The more energy is focused on that, the more boundaries just naturally get enforced because people say like, Oh, this, this is what meal is. There's no point in me challenging this.

00:25:43:02 - 00:26:02:00
Dr. Emil
So so I agree with that point entirely. And I think for the purposes of the podcast and kind of diminishing returns, we should kind of move on to the next example. But I think I do think that if I'm thinking this, there's at least a few other people who are thinking along those lines. So I think there is value to our to the discussion we had.

00:26:02:01 - 00:26:14:16
Dr. Emil
But that last point I agree said that the to some of that section of focus on being self-assured, focus on what you want, and the boundaries will come as a kind of the same.

00:26:14:16 - 00:26:16:16
Itamar Marani
Effect exactly downstream effects.

00:26:16:20 - 00:26:26:10
Dr. Emil
Exactly so so in health it would be focus on living a healthy lifestyle and losing some thought will be a very pleasant downstream effects. It's putting the horse before the carbs kind of thing.

00:26:26:10 - 00:26:45:18
Itamar Marani
100%, 100%. And that's why I can talk about the other case that is really that's over principle for all of them. That's really what it is. It just like establish that it will happen as a downstream effect. The other case studies I can talk about are just I just want to talk about simple things. People just recognizing that. Sorry, go ahead.

00:26:45:18 - 00:27:01:00
Dr. Emil
I was just going to say go through that at least briefly, because I think with this kind of thing, the more people can relate to this and relate to specific cases, the more they'll be able to implement it, the more it will click. So I think cover them. I mean, we don't need to have that big discussion again, but cover them.

00:27:01:04 - 00:27:01:24
Dr. Emil
Cover them for sure.

00:27:02:19 - 00:28:43:02
Itamar Marani
Okay. So an example that's interesting that just came up. So a couple of people are starting now the the mindset accelerator and they asked me about establishing boundaries and I let them see the interview we did here with Scott a couple episodes back and now he talks about having to let go of a lot of people in his life and how that was really challenging. And I think boundaries is the toughest thing, where you still feel a pull from your past as far as like, I owe these people something, even if you don't really, but it's just a sense that you owe them something because they helped you without really wanting to help you. So, for example, Scott, it was a lot of the people you hung out with in jujitsu, they, they provided they facilitated a place for him to train and do something, really enjoy. But they weren't positive people. A lot of them were like really, really ruined their life. It's they're living in Bangkok. There's a lot of ways there. You can really turn your life into the wrong direction. And he still felt obliged to be friendly with them, to help them, because they're in a way helping him just by being his training partners, even though they don't have that intentionality about actually making a conscious effort to sacrifice something for him. And I think that's a really big thing to recognize that sometimes these people who have contributed in our lives in some way, we have to have the humility to recognize that if we want to get to where we want to get to, this doesn't work. We're not Superman. We can't put everybody on our back and go. I think having that humility to say I have to set boundaries from a place of humility, that if I want to get to where I want to get to, I can't afford to do this. It's just not possible. That's very freeing, because guilt, like you said, that whole self-assurance, it's not 100%. We still have guilt. We still feel bad about it. But if we can come from it, from a place of humility, relieves a lot of that.

00:28:44:05 - 00:29:22:24
Dr. Emil
Yeah, and I like that you framed that as humility, because a lot of people will see that as a savage and wanting to please people. But then I think what happens, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you resent those interactions, even though you're trying to be there for those people. You resent them because you're not quite living your true self. You know where you want or know you should be. And therefore they sense the resentment that actually no one is being served by that relationship. So you dragging it along is not helping them like you think you are, and it's not helping you for sure.

00:29:22:24 - 00:30:04:20
Itamar Marani
To be honest, that may be true. That's never just how I thought about it. I thought about it from honestly a more a more pragmatic, I guess, perspective of saying who are the people in your life who actually care about you want to help. You have to choose. You can't help everybody. You can't put everybody on your back, especially those who don't actually want to go for the right. And how you were saying with those people that were making fun of you for building your personal brand on Instagram and here you are today, and those are the people that you don't actually want to help in your life. I think establishing that who to actually care about their opinion of me and who do I not again, that allow you to enforce boundaries using these people are it's not relevant. What they think doesn't serve me. Does that make sense?

00:30:05:17 - 00:30:21:21
Dr. Emil
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a slightly different example. As in those WhatsApp people were of actively negative influence, they were being dicks, whereas this is kind of they're not, they're not trying to, they're not, they're not bad people.

00:30:21:21 - 00:30:30:03
Itamar Marani
They're just that's, that's when it's fun, that's when it's harder actually. So you have to enforce a ban is even more shit because you can't exactly you can't just write them off. Although they're being negative people.

00:30:30:03 - 00:30:31:14
Dr. Emil
They've done nothing wrong. Exactly.

00:30:31:17 - 00:30:49:11
Itamar Marani
Exactly. But they certainly they have done nothing wrong, but their presence is doing something wrong in your life. Correct. And that's the recognition. Now with that comes a sense of guilt. But they're good people, they're polite, whatever. And that's what you have to have humility. So, you know what? I can't move forward if they're still going to be like, that's just a reality.

00:30:50:07 - 00:31:18:05
Dr. Emil
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I have. And that's why I kind of think that kind of justification in that quotes is it can kind of help people see how that makes sense. Logically, it's a process that people can go to to say, this isn't serving either of us. So it's not that I'm cutting them loose and you know they're going to drown. Actually, this is not serving either of us. It's not serving them. It's not serving me. Maybe this is a bullshit justification, but it might go on.

00:31:18:22 - 00:31:48:12
Itamar Marani
I yeah, the word justification is interesting. I just think it's an honest realization. It's not a justification. This is the truth. That's the reality of it. So that saying they're going to drown even if you help them or even if you don't, some people just want to drown. Honestly, some people just want to stay in the same place they are. Yeah. You being there or not is not going to make any difference. It's only going to impact you negatively for them. Honestly, it might impact them positively. They might feel like, Oh, I get to talk shit or I get to say this or I get to do that. I feel good about myself for a little, a little tiny bit.

00:31:49:03 - 00:32:08:13
Dr. Emil
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, I mean, I spoke to my therapist a lot about this last year, some people just don't want to be helped and you trying to help them is negative for both them and for you. And like, just to be clear, or at least from my point of view, this is much less about like purely like, right.

00:32:09:21 - 00:32:19:11
Dr. Emil
If people earn less, then you know, you need to ditch them. That kind of bullshit. It's not about it's not about money, it's about energy, it's about mindset. It's about so many other things.

00:32:19:16 - 00:32:22:05
Itamar Marani
The set of values as well is exactly that.

00:32:22:08 - 00:32:32:19
Dr. Emil
Exactly that. So just to be clear, this isn't simply about I just need to hang out with, you know, 20 figure entrepreneurs, otherwise it's fucking pointless. It's it's so much more in-depth than that.

00:32:32:19 - 00:33:27:06
Itamar Marani
So just to double down on what you're saying, I think one of the most exhausting experiences we have in life are when we're trying to upkeep our values against people who don't have the shared values. And we're in that. We're in a situation where we really have to fight to maintain that. So if you're a very ethical person, like this was Scott's example, like he really wants to be an ethical person who does good by people and he's a family man and so on and so on, and you have people that are doing very much the opposite things. That's going to create an energy drain. Yeah, And I think that's why you have to humility saying I can't deal with this energy drain. Same thing with the guy from the accelerated who just left that what similar WhatsApp group to yours. Probably it was probably an energy drain. He was like, I don't want to do this with my life, but man, these people have been with me for a long time. I met them in school, whatever it may be, but it's an energy drink saying those boundaries that gives you all that energy to the positive things in your life. Yeah. And can I wrap this podcast up with a bar?

00:33:28:09 - 00:33:29:03
Dr. Emil
With a bar?

00:33:29:11 - 00:33:30:16
Itamar Marani
With a bar, you know?

00:33:30:16 - 00:33:33:24
Dr. Emil
No. Then I think I do now. Actually, I've seen the notes go on.

00:33:34:08 - 00:34:07:00
Itamar Marani
This is a that I love this. Like so first of all, I'm a Jay-Z fan. Yes. So like, you don't get from where he was to where he is without having a tremendous amount of of wisdom, honestly. And I love this one song says if you can't already see I worried about y'all because I'm already me. And it really is all that is like if you're already you and you're comfortable with yourself, you don't worry as much about other people. And that's what I'm trying to say about this whole boundary stuff. Focus on being comfortable with you. The boundaries will happen as a byproduct. It really is that simple. It's that easy, but it's simple.

00:34:08:01 - 00:34:13:24
Dr. Emil
I think that's a great way to surround off surround off that podcast that sums it up. Let's not spoil it by saying any more.

00:34:14:24 - 00:34:17:20
Itamar Marani
So we're good. We'll see you guys on the next episode.