Why Most Mindset Programs are Nonsense | Elite Performance Podcast #12

Itamar Marani 0:00
Welcome to today's episode, before we get started, I just want to give you a quick heads up that we did do some live editing in the beginning of the podcast. So if you hear some transitions that don't sound fully clear, it's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with your podcast player, we just wanted to make sure we cut out everything that didn't need to be there. So we can say as potent as possible and episode can be as effective as possible, and help you guys succeed. Enjoy the episode.

Mindset is fluffy, it doesn't really work, it leaves me with a bit of an emotional high that fades after a while whether that's through actually doing programs or going to some conferences and talking about it. And I just don't think it really works. So this is something that I ran up against a lot, I was going to a conference this past weekend, I also gave a talk there before the conference, I organized my own event, there were a lot of people showed up. And people were really surprised when I actually showed a framework of how we actually run them. And I remember a meal, you actually were surprised as well in Mexico, and I showed it to you, I think two years ago. And I want to talk about that. Because there's a lot of mindset programs out there that are complete bullshit, in my opinion, and we're gonna explain what I mean by bullshit. And explain what you have to do in order to basically have a gauge to say something that's going to help you in life, or if it's a bullshit program, because there are a lot of bullshit programs out there. But we want to give you guys now the tools to make sure that you're not going to fall prey to that. And also honestly, I hope I will shatter a lot of people's belief out there. That mindset has to be fluffy or just like short term, and doesn't really create long lasting results. So with that said, like, welcome, Emil. Let's get started today, man.

Dr. Emil 1:28
Thanks for having me. Let's do this.

Itamar Marani 1:30
Alright, so do you have anything to say at the top about after what I just kind of give a overview of

Dr. Emil 1:35
this is the perfect podcasts at this point, because this is a very important thing.

Itamar Marani 1:41
Yeah, because I'd actually I'd love to hear your perspective on it as well. But before we go into like, good, bad, or whatever I wanted to find like, I'm not a fan of standard, good or bad, I want to say effective or not effective. So we can understand like what we're really talking about here and find that. So here's what I mean, as far as an effective, it is not effective, if it just gives you an emotional high. That just like comes on, and you're super motivated, but then it fades. And it's also not effect effective, if that only lasts during the container itself. So let's say when people go to a yoga retreat, they feel really great about themselves, everything's really aligned, it's amazing. But then they go back to the real world, and like, none of it lasts, those things are not effective for your mindset for your sense of self, whatever it may be. When we're saying effective, we're saying it creates long term results, the last he creates results, is amazing results, it doesn't just make you feel a certain way. It makes you feel a certain way internally, but that also creates external results. And both of these things last, when you have that damage is a good mindset program. If you don't have that, we're just the motivation behind that fades, or you just kind of like sit there and talk about your feelings, you feel a bit better while you're in it, but then that fades as well. ineffective. And we're gonna get into why I think honestly, a lot of people are able to get away with pulling off, he's ineffective things, some people are gonna get a little upset. I mean, I think for this, but I think it's really important to talk about, I mean, I see at least about to say something,

Dr. Emil 3:08
the effective bit is important, because and for something to be effective, it has to have a benchmark. So what does effective mean? It means that I have a point of reference. And this is effective or useful for getting me to that point of reference. And that is in contrast to, you know, good, which is vague, or yet an emotional high, I feel warm and fuzzy inside. And that's what you can sell warm and fuzzy is a sell people love it that they felt so good during that, whatever it was. But as you said, if you do not get a quantitative, something that you can measure improvement in your life. You've been shortchanged. You've been exactly, exactly. So warm and fuzzy is not is not justification. There needs to be something measurable that your life gets better.

Itamar Marani 4:00
Yeah, and this is an interesting thing, because I'm gonna give an example it's kind of I think it'll bring it down to earth for a lot of people. So we had a sales call with a consultant we're trying to bring into the business to help us out. And the sales call was like 1015 minutes. And as soon as we hang up, I was like, no wrong person. And my wife was a second commandment, she was like, Why, like, they're more concerned about making us happy than creating a result that we might not understand or agree with. But that result will make us happy in the long term. And I can see that like right away, like you're smiling because I'm sure you've experienced this as well. Like a lot of the programs out there, they're the same thing. So as I say this, a lot of the programs out there are the same thing. They're focused on making you feel good in the program. They're not focused on making you confront certain things that you might not want to confront. But there'll be really good for you in the long term.

Dr. Emil 4:48
Go ahead, Itamar cares more about you achieving your results than about you liking him in the most you know caring and compassionate way like that. goes in front. And that's what gets you the results. Because a lot of programs out there, they want you to like them, they want you to be happy. And then and then they they put that and it is putting the cart before the horse, they want you to feel good. So then you refer it but actually results called causes the referrals. So they missed that they're too afraid to be rejected.

Itamar Marani 5:22
Yeah, I'll say this, like, in a different manner. Like, first of all, I agree. Like I care about people's results more like it's not me, it's the way the program is structured. But I think it's because we care more about the truth. It's like we want people understand the truth of what's actually going on inside their heads inside them. So they can take action, we don't want to trade around and create like a mirage around it so they can feel good. So that's exactly. And that's why I always say this program is not for everybody. Yeah, I'm very clear about that. We're not trying to help change everybody in the world that is very clear to those people who wants to know the truth, but are frustrated because I've tried doing these things. And then I just get like motivated, it works a little bit. And then when I'm out of that container drops, or they're saying like, I want to also understand the truth, my emotions and my feelings, but it's like, it always feels so woowoo and vague. And it's like without a purpose or a goal. And that also doesn't work for me. So what I would love to do in this podcast is to dispel that say like, if you do seek the truth, and you want long term results, here are some things that you can do that give you that opportunity. The other things you should absolutely watch out for. And also, like want to, I'm gonna say some things later on. But like, what are the big things to be aware of, like, these are signs that this is a bullshit program that you're about to enter, or like the person you're working with, they don't really know their stuff. Because your mindset is like relatively vague. These days, people don't know how to clearly define it. And because of that, a lot of people can get away with nonsense. And so we're gonna try to dispel that a bit, I just want to talk about the principles of what creates a good mindset program that creates, again, good grades, long lasting results that have both an internal thing that where you can feel better about life, and you enjoy it more and also creates external results. And again, this stuff last results.

Dr. Emil 6:58
So I'm good. Let's do it.

Itamar Marani 7:01
Alright, so first thing that I really want to bring up like your external success is a downstream effect of who you are internally. That is the fact that unless you win the lotto, or have some, you know, black swan event, 99.9% of times, that is what happens, your external success is a downstream effect of who you are internally. So the deeper you make the change internally, the more impactful it will have on your long term external success, the bigger of an impact that will have. And what we were saying earlier that a lot of these programs, they only go an inch deep, and just make you feel really good. Like they're not actually changing something internally, they're just adding something like positive feelings, everybody's smiling, everybody's happy, everybody feels real, aligned, whatever it may be, like, it doesn't create the internal change, that is going to be necessary. Like if you can think about it, because the thing of depth, like if you go only an inch deep, it's only going to last, like let's say like one amount of time, one time, whatever you want to call it. If you go a whole mile deep, that's going to last a lot longer. And it's like you see it in business, he always talks about you don't want to, you don't want to solve a problem that will arise again in three weeks in a different way. You want to be solving three months problems, three year fault. If you solve the root of this, it's like you won't see it again for another three years. I think most mindset programs don't do that. And just kind of, in my opinion, there's two big schools of mindset programs. There's one of the really like Cardinals motivated, like all that kind of jazz, how to be tougher. And then there's also the school of like, let's talk about the soft stuff more to talk about our feelings and our emotions. And those are the two big schools. Would you agree with that?

Dr. Emil 8:34
Yeah, yeah, broadly.

Itamar Marani 8:37
Great. So I think the ones that talk about their motions, they try to kind of go deep, but they don't really know how to do it, most of them. Because they're just kind of sitting there with their emotions. There's no real process to it. And it kind of feels really good to vent for a lot of people and just to kind of share and people be like, oh, yeah, I see you for people to be seen. And there is value in that it's similar therapy. Has you always talked about it? Yeah. But it's not with a specific end goal. But let's approve this. Let's resolve this, because we want to take action. And that is the big thing, because we actually want to take a certain action in our life, and I just feel a bit better with this in the moment. And yeah, motivational so I'm just gonna finish this up educational schools. Like, they don't even talk about that stuff. They're not saying let's work on the inside, let's go deep. They're just saying let's create something on top of that, a lot of motivation, a lot of toughness, or whatever. So hopefully, that's not an issue where you can combat you can have so much motivation and drive that will overcome whatever internal stuff that you have. And like that's you're just like fighting a battle instead of creating a more efficient, efficient ecosystem and like inside yourself, just trying to crank up the volume. So it's like that analogy always say instead of putting down the handbrake just trying to press harder on the gas, but I'm hoping that Alas, it's just not a smart long term solution. My eyes.

Dr. Emil 9:48
Yeah, yeah. I'm a fan of therapy. I've had therapy myself, and it's been very, very powerful. The difference that I've always seen is that it doesn't there's no action necessarily, it's not about taking affirmative action to accelerate life. It's about, you know, as you say, being seen being heard, bringing awareness to things which happened in the past, which is very, very valuable, and how they affect the current. But often that is the end of its kind of remit. It can't really go beyond that. And then with my therapist, I pushed, I was like, I want some outcomes. I want some goals and fair play to her. She was like, that's not really the point of therapy, but okay, let's talk about it. Yeah, but I was like, Yeah, I need this quantitative improvements in my life, otherwise, I'm just paying you money to, to talk. The other point, you say about going an inch versus going a mile. going a mile is uncomfortable. It's hard. And from a purely, you know, marketing perspective, you know, bringing people in having them pay you money to be uncomfortable and to be, and to be like, Oh, this is really hard. isn't the best marketing strategy, right? So people just go a little bit to make them feel like something's happening to make them feel good, but not, not, not bad. Not not rough. And then and then. Alright, now you have a business. So I think that's the value in it, because discomfort and growth and going deep, is hard. Yeah.

Itamar Marani 11:23
Yeah, it's weird cliche. Like, everybody knows, they should be in their growth zone. But nobody understands like your gross on literally means you're not in your comfort zone. So it's gonna be uncomfortable. Like, it literally just means that. And I think that kind of going back to that example, I shared about the consultant, it's like, I think it's a great litmus test. If you feel like the program you're about to enter or the person you're about to work with whatever it may be, they care about you being happy with them. That is a bad sign. Because you're not going to want to have uncomfortable conversations with you that you're probably going to need to have to resolve some deeper issues. They're not going to say like, Hey, man, this is gonna be very uncomfortable. But this we're going to talk about right now. I think you're afraid. I think you know, that you need to fire this person, but you're intimidated by them, and you're not confident enough in yourself, you'll be able to bring someone else on. And that's why you're running away from this are like a conversation I had with one of my one on one clients who have been working with a while his business is doing amazing, and all this and I was like, we're gonna have a tough conversation. And he was like, okay, and I was like, you're setting a bad example for your daughter, for the kind of man she's gonna grow up and like, be with, is that what you want? And it was a very uncomfortable conversation, because very grateful we had it, because of something that he wasn't able to see from the outside how he was living. And he's doing great and all that. But like, I know, he wouldn't have wanted his daughter to be with a man like how he was being in some ways. And he'll be able to see from that perspective, like, I don't think most people say he said that to me, literally, then I'm like, No one, no one says that to me, I appreciate you putting this on. And it's a big litmus test. Like if the goal of the program and the person you're working with, is they want you to be happy with them. That's not a long term thought. They need to care about your success more than they care about your relationship between you and them. Like, honestly, if people leave the arena, and they're upset me. And this has actually happened, I think when we were in Mexico, and that talks that we we spoke about earlier, one of the guys that came to me and I stopped working with him a year ago, and we had a bit of a rocky like ending to it. And you remember when we all had like dinner afterwards was a taco place. And it was like Itamar, just wanna say this in front of everybody. Like, I really appreciate you having that talk with me back then. I know like We butted heads. But like, after a month or two, it really sunk in. And now like you literally think he said, like he's working only four days a week now tripled his income, all this kind of jazz. But on top of these, like I have a much better relationship with my father now. And I appreciate that. Like, if the person you're working with or it's a program you're in, doesn't encourage those kinds of things where you can see some people get upset during the program, because you're getting poked in a way they need to get poked. That's a problem. Now, obviously, that's not an excuse for the person who's leaving the program to do it in a way that doesn't have a lot of empathy and doesn't have a lot of compassion in it as well. Because the point of the program is to get people results. It's not just to like put something in their face, but it's to help them confront it and overcome it. And that's really important. Does this all make sense so far?

Dr. Emil 14:09
Yeah. And, you know, in that last example, you mentioned, I think, four measurable outcomes that that guy achieved, you know, triple the income working less, better relationship with Father, these are all real benefits. And that's because you went a mile deep, and you valued his growth over him liking you in the short term, and now, he's eternally grateful.

Itamar Marani 14:33
Yeah, like, it's like, to be honest, as well. It's sometimes even valuing the truth more than his growth. Because like, for me that situation like to be to be completely transparent. I was like, this is the truth of what we need to confront. Like somebody who sees like the the high level picture here is like as a coach, someone's actually supposed to see the field. It's like, this is the truth of what we need to talk about right now. And, like for me, a lot of times that has been a better lighthouse, so to speak, in someone's car Just because the truth will reveal, like growth. And I just don't feel like this is the actual constraint of what's going on. It's what we need to talk about. Like, we can't do anything else until we talk about this, because this is the truth of the matter. Now this truth, if we look at it, and we actually address it, this is going to help you grow. But again, I think truth above everything, you know, I mean,

Dr. Emil 15:19
yeah. Yeah, you're smiling. I'm smiling, because radical honesty, above and beyond just being honest, but going out of your way, to be honest, is one of my values at the moment. And when we talk about values, I mean, arena style values, which you may things I want to improve and work on. I've literally written it on my whiteboard here. One and a half meters away. I wrote it an hour ago. So yeah, yeah. Truth of everything.

Itamar Marani 15:48
Yeah. But again, it's it's how you're saying like tough love. You said that at the beginning of the episode, the way I look at tough love is that like, I don't choose above everything. Within Astrakhan. Like, I don't tell people the truth that I don't really care about. And here's what I mean by that. Like, if I don't care enough about you to like really, to want to see you succeed. I'm not going to tell you the truth. Because I recognize that I can an honest level, I might say something that you don't want to accept, that won't land well. And I'm not going to honestly make the effort. If I don't care. Like if I think you're someone who lacks certain values that I share, or certain ethics or whatever it may be. It's like I can steamroll people because I can see what's going on with them. But that doesn't do anyone any favors. But if I can say you know what, actually really care about this person. So I'm going to be tough on them, because I love them more than I love the relationship between us right now. I care about their long term success more than I care about us being comfortable right now, and more about their opinion about me. And I think that's when you can know like, should I be truthful with someone? Can I give them tough love and be tough for them, but from places that actually love them and care for them? And not just like truth, everyone, because that's just how I roll. I think that's where, where people can get confused. And people sometimes act like assholes. Pardon my language, I think that's what it is. Because you're not saying like, I'm actually wanting to help this person. I just want to like, tell them the truth of what they need to hear that. That's not doing anyone any help.

Dr. Emil 17:12
No, I feel that's an ego thing. That's a yes. I want to feel like I'm bigger than this person by spitting truth. And, you know, like, putting them in that place. And it's not thinking of them. First. It's thinking of yourself first and how you come across and how you your image, whatever it is. Yeah.

Itamar Marani 17:29
Cool. So I want to move on. And I want to say why. So first off, like, I think we covered the fact that the motivational stuff, I'm just like, I don't think it works, because it only goes like an inch deep. If that it doesn't even go usually just like tries to put try to pour motivation on top of whatever is going on there. And then that fates. I do want to talk about though a big thing, why I think most entrepreneurs, especially the eight types, still go for the motivational stuff, like the go harder, all that kind of jazz, instead of diving into the emotional part. I think the people that are doing the motivational go harder stuff. They're usually externally more successful than the guys that are doing the emotional woowoo stuff. And because of that, we say, Okay, this makes more sense. For me, this is what I want. Well, this person has, this is what I want. Now, the problem is that the emotional woowoo stuff, in my opinion, like not wanting you to woo but understanding your emotions and your beliefs, and why you have certain fears, insecurities, being able to resolve that is the most effective thing. Now, the problem is that most people that talk about this, because it's such a vague thing, they can get away with a lot of bullshit. There's no limits, especially because like how you said, there's no end result that we're really trying to achieve here. So because of that, like anybody can say, oh, like, let's talk about our feelings. And because we share our feelings, like Oh, it feels better, I released that I was hurt. And because of that there's a saturation in the market of anybody who wants to like talk about their feelings have a crystal behind them color their hair green, or whatever it may be. And they can say like, oh, I'm an expert about it, sir. You're laughing because you've seen this thing that gives you experts that is if you have some crystals a little gone. And you can call your hair green or purple, all of a sudden, you know something about emotions, and you can guide people. And I think that's why so many and it frustrates me really does. Because I think that's why so many people who are so driven and want to excel in like life most like an internal level. And that's called like a family value of personal values. And business don't address this, because you're seeing these kinds of people and they're like, I want no part of that. And I think that's a big thing to recognize it just because most people that do this rule, and they're getting away with a lot of nonsense, it does not mean that this whole thing is nonsense. Just because like A equals B doesn't mean that all B's are a you know I mean

Dr. Emil 19:43
Yeah. Can I Can I jump in just with a thought there. So the other reason why a type entrepreneurs love motivation is because often their initial driver to get into business is high motivation and that might be to escape something then that might be to prove someone wrong that might be to buy a Lamborghini, whatever the hell it is. So they operate by jacking up motivation. And then that works as long as it works. And then when it stops working, and this is exactly what happened to me, Suddenly the wind is out of your sails and you're like, why aren't I functioning? Why aren't I operating? Why don't I feel fulfilled? So what we try and do, what I tried to do is jack up motivation. Take more stimulants, do these courses, whatever it is set bigger goals, and maybe that will work maybe, maybe even I will reach my goal, there will still be an empty pit of pain inside. Because I never addressed the root, the core feelings, the fears, the reasons that I'm smashing motivation. And this is an analogy used all the time is instead of trying to continually jacket motivation, which naturally fluctuates up and down, take the handbrake off, remove the core fear, remove what's blocking you. And then you will continue to make progress even when motivation naturally fluctuates up and down.

Itamar Marani 21:06
Yeah, so the kind of like, encapsulate that I talk a lot about the called the motivation fallacy thing, as a company was saying, when we started, we're all supermoto, because we have to be motivated, we have to make a certain amount of money, pay payroll, whatever it may be. And then we get to this point where like, things are good enough. And all of a sudden, we hit this level of like procrastination, and people feel like they have plateaued, whatever it may be. And a big part of that is because like the level of internal resistance you had all of a sudden is equal to level of motivation, because their motivation faded. So most people try to do that instead of like really working on internal resistance or failing to train up the motivation. And for some people, it's stimulants. For some people, it's bigger goals. For some people, it's like motivational videos. For some people, it's actually going to like, these emotional healing retreats, or whatever it may be. All these kinds of things getting realigned with your wife, all that jazz. Like, the reality is like those things really just have like a short live impact, and then they fade. And what Amelia suggesting is like saying, you said it interesting said it in different way. Like, it's still even if you reach your goals, you're gonna still have like a wound, they're still gonna not be fun, you're still gonna be uncomfortable. Like, honestly, that's all true. I also look at it from a more pragmatic perspective, like, you're just operating with a lot of operational, there's a lot of internal drag is like, it's a very inefficient system, if you're trying to like override a lot of internal resistance, instead of saying, like, you know what, let's just create less internal resistance. And then we have to create less, right? Yeah, I got a, there's a quote, I love by Colin Chapman, who is the founder of the f1 Lotus team. And I think it says something like to add lightness, add speed, power makes you faster on the streets, lightness makes you faster everywhere. And it's just that, like, if you can create a lighter internal like system for yourself operating place, just easier to go and achieve whatever you want to achieve. It also feels much better internally, like we said, and you also get long term results. That way, you know that it actually works. Now, I think also, to kind of go back to what I was saying, I think the reason that most like not enough people are calling out all the nonsense going on in the emotional aspect of like, why people don't address this is because it's kind of taboo. Because it's people's emotions, and people are very sensitive. And it's taboo to say this is a poor process. This doesn't actually get people results. Because then someone can always jump and say, Well, you know what, it made me feel better. And I don't think you're being sensitive. And I don't think this I don't think that. But the reality is most of these things, don't even have a process. Forget about a poor process. It's I'm in a process, there's no systematic way to say like, Okay, this we're trying to get through and life is what you want, both internally and externally. This is what needs to happen. And these are the things you got to let go of your fears, your insecurities, your doubts, and this is how you do that step by step. This is exactly how you do that. It's not like, oh, just be aware of these things. Say hi to them, when you see them, and then like, okay, but actually, like systematically overcome them. I think because of that, so many people are deterred from it. Like, it really frustrates me because in that conference that I was at, like, so many people came up to me, and they're like, Oh, we didn't know this was a thing. We thought mindset was something like we have to give up on because I tried it. I know, I have issues. I know that like I know what to do, and I know how to do it, but I'm not doing it. But I just thought like, Man, I don't want to invest again, like my time, my energy, my effort, whatever it may be, into something that's gonna give me a momentary up, but it's not gonna last and kind of fade. And like, it really bothers me, because I just think it's like, I was very fortunate that we talked about therapy that like my, the only therapists that I've ever worked with, he was the head of psychology, the Mossad. So it wasn't really a therapist. His goal was to get agents to perform really well in the fields for prolonged periods of time. By using psychology. There was a very clear end goal to what he was doing. It was an operational necessity. And so like I was able to adopt some of his methodologies and change them a little bit and so on, but it's like, most people don't know that. That's how it's supposed to be. In my opinion. That's how it's supposed to be like if you want to really live a great life get results. It is a tool and you have to know how to employ that tool. Does that make sense with no been in a bit of a rant now?

Dr. Emil 24:54
No, no, no, this is great. The problem with setting a goal with the emotional stuff Is that then you put your program against the benchmark and you risk failure. Right? So you said a lot of these people didn't mean by that. So I mean, like, by setting a goal, there's a chance of not not reaching it. Yeah, right. And if you, as you say, a lot of these people who do the woowoo, emotional stuff, they have no idea what they're doing. They're just making people feel good. And as long as there's no measure, they can measure they can claim success. As soon as you put a measure, they risk being outed as frauds. So then they say, Oh, we don't need goals. This isn't about goals. This is about alignments and whatever other soft stuff because it shields to them. Whereas as soon as you say that, this is your goal, you've set it now we're going to achieve it. You're putting yourself out there. And you're putting your process out there to say, my process will help you achieve this.

Itamar Marani 25:49
Well, I think you're having achieved both, that's the thing. Yeah, but like putting it on the line, it's not just like, Oh, we're just gonna putting it on the line. So there's no measuring stick. It's like it's putting both. Let's make you feel drawn. It's also good to external results.

Dr. Emil 26:03
And you know, you say both, that it's both in there the same thing as well. Right, as you say, the external comes from downstream from the internal. And as we said earlier, the biggest danger is that you hit your goal, the external, even with the handbrake on, because then you think even more that the process works is bad, it's not good that you hit your goal, because then you think, why do I need to keep doing this to get rid of the feeling the internal?

Itamar Marani 26:32
So let's talk about that. Like I said, hitting your goal, like, let's, let's use a different word here. You want to achieve success, true success in my eyes, because even if you hit your external goal inside, agreed, you won't be happy. That's exactly. Because yeah, but beyond that, but because you had so much, let's call it like internal drag, because you're finding all this resistance that has to come out somewhere in your life. Yeah, I have not seen people like hit a goal. Like it's a big financial goal. When I can also see them, there's a lot of internal friction, but they also have great family life, great health. Yeah. Because that has to be that friction had to be vented somewhere. It could be into food, it could be into whatever it may be. So it's like success, when think about just like external success on a whole level. I don't think it can be achieved. Like, again, like my definition of success, where you can have like, you know, great health, great family life, great relationships, great friendships, and great business success that I haven't seen people do where there's a lot of internal friction in them. Because even if they achieve one of those things, there's so much friction, that it's got to get vented out somewhere,

Dr. Emil 27:34
it's impossible, I would go a step further and say it's not, it's not possible to achieve success by that definition, if there's a lot of a lot of baggage. And when I say goal, I mean the kind of super arbitrary, or I want to make X amount of money then people often do in business scenarios, and which is what I did to try and reach fulfillment, whatever the bullshit. And then people when they set them, they set that goal. And then they set like maybe as a tertiary goal, which is an afterthought, I want to be happy. But there's no definition or breakdown, like they break down their their money goal into like segments, and months and years and everything quarters, but the happiness score, they're like, I don't want to be happy and have good relationships. And they don't even think about it. Both are 100%.

Itamar Marani 28:21
Yeah, I think it even like, the order of them is like, so what we're doing the renumber first, people really clear on how they want to feel in life. And again, most of these people are like hyper ambitious individuals. So one of the things they want to feel is really accomplished, because that will give them peace. And that piece can create happiness, and so on, and so on. So realize one of these things, external goals that you want to achieve, that will make you feel really accomplished, great. But they're kind of looking at it from both facets, like how do I want to feel? And then what should I do in order to gain that feeling? Not from place of like what I feel compelled to do, because others telling me but what would be really cool for me to do. And then alive, I can say, Well, this was really cool. I'm happy about myself proud content, whatever it may be. So I think it's time to wrap this one up. Do you have any parting thoughts about this email?

Dr. Emil 29:11
No, I mean, So to summarise, it's important to have a goal or a benchmark. And by that we mean there needs to be a quote, a measurable quantitative improvement to your life after doing a program. If there isn't, maybe you've been had, maybe that wasn't the program for you. Yeah,

Itamar Marani 29:34
I'll go a step further. A bit more. Let's poke some stuff. So like these are ways to know if it's a bad program, if it's not actually going to serve you. Like Camille was saying, if it focuses on making you feel better, instead of resolving something on a long term basis that will create also tangible results. That's one if it all the results you see I said a case studies or whatever it may be from this program. I was like during the program I felt so on hazing, but nobody talks about what happened afterwards. That's a sign. Again, like their whole focus is making people feel better, and not about helping them confront sometimes uncomfortable truths that they need to confront, in order to really improve their life on a long term basis. And like, honestly, from my perspective, I have not seen this, maybe this exists. I have not seen someone with colored hair yet. Or with a ton of crystals in their background, and Emile is frozen because I'm saying the truth. I have not seen this yet. It might exist. But I've not seen someone like that. Also have a really great program that's restructured that's really properly and systematically like format it to create results. I have not seen that. And I think it's shamans training too much of an external facade around what they're doing, instead of just getting to the truth. And to the point of the matter, I would watch out for it. And again, the whole point of this, of this podcast is just like, mindset isn't fluffy. It's not about momentary like ups and downs. It's about creating an internal environment, where you can have long lasting success and results by removing the internal handbrake and really focusing on that in a systematic way. If someone only focused on that, but they're not doing in a systematic way, but just like, Oh, we're just gonna talk about your feelings, that doesn't work. And I hope this helps some people out there because I know this was a big issue in the conference. And like, it was sad for me to hear this, that so many people just like were like, Oh, I didn't know that was the truth. I kind of just accepted that. I know what to do. I don't know, I know how to do it. But I'm just not going to get myself to do it. But that's just how this stuff is it doesn't work. So I hope this podcast was helpful for some people. I'm sorry for those I offend. And not really, but I'm supposed to say that apparently from a meal selection.

Dr. Emil 31:43
Just to just, you know, if you sense that there is a fluffiness, or that there are bells and whistles, distractions, gimmicks, then that's potentially a red flag. And then just my last final kind of words, if you know, and you don't do, then you don't know. So if you say I know how to fix my mindset, but you're not doing it and you're not getting measurable results. You don't know how to fix your mindset. Doesn't matter if you read the book, you don't know.

Itamar Marani 32:15
Yeah, yep, thing and we'll set very well like less art more matter. That's what a good mindset program is all about. And on that note, we will leave you guys today. Thank you very much for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode. Thanks, guys.